Evander Holyfield vs Joe Louis

Bowe (II) landed 353 punches on Holyfield.
Bowe (I) landed 357 punches on Holyfield.
Qawi landed 560 punches on Holyfield.

With a strike rate of roughly 45% - 55%, I'd say that's getting hit a lot.

 

To be fair, Joe Louis got hit a fair bit too.

That's what often happens when you fight good fighters who are trying to win.

 

Holyfield didn’t have a great chin. He had a good to very good one. He had great heart, which is the main ingredient (insert steroid joke here) that allowed him to bounce back time and again from being badly hurt. He was badly hurt often, though.

Too often people make out like he had a chin of granite. That just wasn’t the case. But yeah, it was better than Louis’s.

The fact that Louis was still so much more consistent in the Heavyweight division should put an end to the defense debate. Yes, Holyfield faced bigger punchers, but we’re talking about the second most consistent great Heavyweight vs probably the least consistent great Heavyweight. The difference in punching power they faced can’t explain that kind of gap.

 

How many fighters can you name with better chins than Holyfield ?

 

I’m sure I could name quite a few. I’m sure you’d just disagree afterwards, too, so I don’t really see the point of taking the time to complete the exercise. Not gonna get us anywhere.

I was just giving some random thoughts, anyway.

 

I don't know this for certain, but I would wager peak Holyfield got hit more often than peak Louis. Louis was more conscious of his defense being rolled into his offense, in my opinion.

However, I agree with your sentiment re fighting opponents, who come to win. It makes such difference and yet I find this factor to be the most overlooked in analyses of why some boxing matches turn out the way they do.

 

I think Holyfield had a great chin.
If his chin wasn't great, the bar for greatness of chin must be higher than I thought. That's all really.

 

they were both great boxers, but yeah, I'd rate Louis's boxing at the absolute top so that fits with what you're saying.

 

Agree with that, there's probably several that could be said to have a better chin. Holyfield had a good chin, nothing great. Certainly could be cracked by the Brown Bomber

 

I'm sure Joe Louis would knock him out.
But it's nothing to do with Holyfield NOT having a great chin.

 

I'm not one for punch stats, but I think Man Machine's post illustrates it quite well. Whatever praise Holyfield received is irrelevant, as it's clear that he got hit a lot.

Don't take it like I'm shitting on him though. I love Holyfield, and one of the reason's why is because he was so damn hittable. I do think his defence can get underrated, when he was doing what Benton taught him, he could be pretty elusive, but it was only in isolated spots rather than whole fights.

 

Nope. A boxer can have wins over big names in his era, doesn't mean he'd do well against ATGs from other eras.

 

You're entire argument is that Louis was born 50 years earlier. You don't try to find exploitable weaknesses in his game because you know you'd lose this debate!