Evander Holyfield vs Lennox Lewis

I am pretty sure i came across an article in which it was mentioned that Emanuel Steward had told Lewis to stay away from Byrd because his awkward defensive style could give him serious issues. Point is Lewis chose to vacate his title rather than face Byrd.

Klitshko was winning all the rounds, he was ahead on the scorecards. Lenni literally threw the entire Kitchen sink at him and was absolutely gassed at the end of round 6 which was evident the way he slumped on his stool and the fact his punches were out sting at the end of round 6. The moment he got the lucky cut, the entire fight he aimed his right hands and upper cut on Klitschko's eye out of desperation. Even at the end of round 6 Klitshko as a warrior was ready to fight on and continue.

The match ended in such controversial circumstances, a rematch was justified and it was highly demanded. Lenni even promised to give the rematch only to run away and then shamelessly use Wify and Mommy as an excuse.

Its funny how after he put on the best performance of his life in 2002 where he performed absolutely like the best possible version of Lenni given his handspeed, footspeed, punching power, ring generalship, upper cuts, right hands, left hooks, jabs and then one year later his skills had automatically wanned?

Fighters of his style have gone on to fight till late 40's and this guy was just 37. He easily had another 1-2 years left in him but after seeing Klitshko he decided wisely its time to leave rather than ruin a beautifully crafted legacy.

So the book makers are boxing experts now. That is the beauty of Tyson, he was able to live of his later career based on his 1985-1991 showings but everyone with an ounce of brain cell knows that his opposition after prison was nothing to speak about.

Peter Mcneely, Buster Mathis Jr, Frank Bruno, Evander Holyfield, Botha, Orlin Norris, Julius Francis, Savarrese, Golata, Nielsen. That is 8 bums in there.

Holmes was retired for 18 months, but during these 18 months he had been keeping fit and had been taking part in plenty of boxing exhibitions. In fact prior to the Tyson bout he had even mentioned the fact that the layoff was going to make him fresher and fitter for the bout with Tyson as his body was recuperated given the wear and tear of constant training for 3-4 bouts every year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m861f99Nkvk

I am pretty sure Lenni and Lenni nuthuggers who are desperate for a credible all time great win on his resume will continue to glorify the victory over the corpse of Tyson forever for resume padding purposes but every sane person can see through it.

Pretty simple actually, all one has to do is watch videos of Tyson from 1985-88 and watch the Holyfield 1 fight and Lewis fight, i seriously suggest you visit a doctor if you don't feel that this is not a declined fighter.

Holyfield was very lucky to win on cuts in his previous fight against Ruiz. He put on a stelling performance against Tyson and his victory over a more dangerous version of Tyson is much more praiseworthy and credible compared to Lenni's victory over a completely shot version of Tyson.

Maybe Lenni gave some hope because of his China face which Rahman had touched but every sane person knew that outside a lucky punch Tyson at that stage had no real chance.

So book makers are boxing experts now? I mean, seriously?

Demolished whom exactly? Mcneeley, Mathis, Bruno, Seldon? A total of 8 rounds after almost 4 years of inactivity and incarceration. He was missing and whiffing shots against Mcneeley and Mathis, Seldon took a dive while Bruno was scared and only looking to survive.

Pretty steller preperation right against a guy who in comparison had been in major fights with Holmes, Foreman, Bowe triology, Moorer and had been a much active fighter.

Yes Holyfield rose to the occasion and beat a very decent version of Tyson compared to Lenni but lets not kid ourselves that Tyson was fully prepared and ready for a major fight with Holyfield at that point. Even your fellow Lenni nuthugging buddy Vanboxingfan admits that he had bet on Holyfield giving Tyson a tough fight because Tyson was not prepared for such a big step up in level.

In a total of 3 rounds, it was clear to see that Tyson came in much better shape, his footwork and foot speed was much better, he was moving his head, he was properly using his jab to get inside. Probably was not as aggressive enough as he should have been in the first 2 rounds and he made a huge mistake in trying to outbox Evander when he should have gone for the kill.

But that third round was his best round of that fight where he was landing body shots, combinations and even landed a right hand to Holyfields face.

If you watch this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiSXDzMc1TI) you can clearly see that there were so many things Evander was not penalized for and that the referee allowed him to get away with i.e. numerous headbutts, low blows, elbows, knees. George Foreman on record said that Evander was the dirtiest fighter he ever fought. One of the head butts caused a serious cut to Tyson's eye very early into the fight. I think based on this video, it is very reasonable to give Tyson the benefit of the doubt, it wasn't as if he wanted the fight to stop, he still wanted to carry on fighting, he just wanted to even the score and give Holyfield a taste of his own medicine. It is very reasonable to give Tyson the benefit of the doubt because out of 6 losses he took 5 very very sportingly and has never gotten nasty, personal about the opponents he lost too unlike Lenni.

Lenni had not been in that many wars compared to Evander. He was still fighting in the prime of his life. Evander had been in wars with Foreman, Holmes, Bowe (3 times), Tyson (twice). Lenni toughest fights were with Bruno and Mercer. I am sorry but try again, Lewis was pretty much in his prime by the time he fought Evander compared to Evander and still he had a hard time against a terribly diminished version of Evander and did not spectacularly put him away which a man given his tremendous height, weight, reach advantage and boxing skills should have.

The Rid**** Bowe Evander fought in 1992 was the best version of Bowe ever. That version of Bowe was a much superior infighter. In fact it can be argued that any version of Lewis would have a very hard time against a 1992 version of Bowe. And Evander fought him 3 times punching above his weight.

That is not true, i am not disputing his HOF status based on his achievements. I just genuinely feel that a no 3 ranking for him and ranking him above Foreman and Holmes is ludicrous. Heck Sonny Liston, Jack Dempsey, Jack Johnson, Rocky Marciano deserve to be ranked above this guy. A case could be made for Evander being ranked above Lewis as well.

Well when a guy promises a rematch for months and at the last minute pulls out and retires citing Wify and Mommy, pretty much tells the whole story. He was smart enough to realize that he was not going to get lucky twice and why risk damaging his carefully crafted legacy. But there is no proof that he ever had the intention of fearlessly rematching Vitali like a warrior.

Who is talking about career? How many boxers in history have been able to come back into this sport being completely past their best, being inactive for 10 years, fighting into their 40's and being able to win a world title and going the full distance in every fight?

Foreman overall deserves a higher ranking than Lenni for these reasons alone. Same for Holmes.

 

But the point is did it go awry, was he seriously hurt or killed? What he was able to achieve was extra ordinary and his early career combined with him defying his age and achieving what he was able to achieve later on, merits him a much higher ranking than Lenni.

I agree he had no more desire after he saw what we was going to up against versus the Klitshkos. Its funny how he defends his war with Vitali under the pretext i only trained for 2 weeks, i only prepared 50% and then seriously say that his abilities had diminished when only a year ago he put on a career best performance against a horribly diminished version of Tyson.

Ofcourse he could have been hurt against Vitali, he was finally facing a top notch opponent who wasn't shot for a change but he was not going to be hurt for zero reason, the first fight ended in very controversial circumstances and the entire public was demanding a rematch which Lewis promised to give but shamelessly bailed out off citing wify and mommy.

This is just nuthuggery if you are saying Lenni was as diminished as Ali was in his final years. If he can confidently claim i would have destroyed Vitali at my 100% then why not fearlessly come back for just one more fight, give him the rematch and answer all questions that needed to be answered.

Everyone knew that both Holyfield and Tyson were just fighting for money in their final years. Tyson still smartly gave up at the right time in the end even though he was massively in debt.

Hardly a negative at all, what George was able to achieve in his later years put him in the top 5 HOF without any question marks what so ever.

You can overglorify any career you want if you nuthug enough. At least Holmes unlike Lenni got up like a man from his Knock downs and finished all his fights on the winning side. And yes, i back any version of Holmes to take that shot from Rahman and Mccall comfortably. A lion does not get knocked out, starched like an over protected girl by just one big shot to the face, sorry.

But the fact is that George and Holmes are not brain damaged, they have their faculties in tact. They had the courage and guts to come back into the sport well past their best. Holmes in fact didn't even need the money, he came back because he loved the sport.

But he beat a prime version of Ray Mercer very convincingly whereas a prime version of Lenni went to life and death against a diminished version of Mercer and some would say even lost the fight. Lenni got starched like an over protected girl by one big shot to the face by Mccall whereas Holmes just lost to the same Mccall later on by one round.

Point being it can be argued that Lewis has an over inflated resume where he mostly beat up tomato cans and that his best victories over his main competitors occurred when they were shells of themselves. Yes he deserves to be a HOFer but no 3, sorry nope. Too high a ranking.

No attack at all, but i think he gets too much credit for it. I certainly wont call the Mccall fight revenege at all given how scared Lenni was to get close to him to knock him out even though the guy was a mess.

Ofcourse i know Holmes genuinely beat spinks the second time but my point was no one takes losses of all time great fighters towards the *** end of their careers that seriously.

Its funny how you say in 2001 his career wasn't at its end but in 2003 you say he justifiably walked away from the sport. A huge difference some 18 months can make, doesn't it.

My eternal criticism against Lenni will always be his girly susceptibility to that one big shot to the face. That itself demerits a listing from the top 5 for sure.

I just find it funny how Lenni gets so much credit for avenging defeats to D grade boxers like Mccall. That doesn't explain the fact that why was Lenni so scared to take him out, knock him out even though Mccall was a crying stationary target in the rematch.

I liked his fights with Grant, Briggs, Gollata, Botha. Fights in which he early Ko'd his opponents.

Not really, a vast majority of boxers show respect and compassion towards their opponents. Heck Tyson Fury has much more class than Lenni who still to this day attacks Rahman in interviews because of the simple fact that he is a sore looser who cannot handle defeats in an honorable way and is always trying to even the score.

I was talking about sportsmanship in Boxing. Not about who is the better human being.

Nope, all he needs to do is accept his defeats like a man, stop mocking Rahman who beat him without excuses fair and square and most importantly give respect to his opponents like Vitali, Tyson, Holyfield, Rid**** Bowe rather than bragging about a carefully padded, crafted resume.

Yes indeed, someone who got chinned twice by D level fighters would prevail against the Tyson of 1985-88. Someone who needed 8 plus rounds to dispose of a stationary ghost while he was at at his absolute best will win against the best version of Tyson from 1985-88.

Puhhlleeez

I find it funny when Lenni nuthuggers make excuses about how Lenni did not take Mccall seriously, he took him lightly which is riddiculous given that he came into the fight in good shape but the fact is he got chinned. Then the Lenni nuthuggers talk about Lenni not arriving in South Africa early to acclimitize to the altitude, how Lenni got chinned because of his lack of preperation and not taking Rahman seriously.

Pretty rich to see these double standards being okay for Lenni but not for Tyson.

Thats fine, i dont really care where you put him or where anyone puts him. I agree Lenni and Holyfield have a better resume overall compared to him but my only issue is Lenni getting the no 3 spot and in some ways being ranked higher than Holyfield.

This is a fact, Lewis will never ever be remembered the same way as a boxer and figure in Boxing compared to Tyson. Lewis is much more forgettable.

Nope, the way i look at it Lewis should have never lost to a D grade fighter in the first place. Secondly he should not be getting for doing something which he should have done in the first place. Revenging a defeat to a George Foreman, Ali, Joe Frazier is one thing but Oliver Mccall, Hasim Rahman. Puhleez.

 

My point is that just because of what he did to D level fighters which he should have done in the first place (when he should never have been in that position at all), does not merit him a spot at no 3 in the HOF rankings, sorry.

He won the last fight of his career on the basis of a lucky cut in heated and controversial circumstances, a fight he was losing comfortably on points. The public had strongly demanded a rematch, he had promised a rematch but then went back on his promise citing mommy and wify shamelessly.

It was just a matter of one final fight to answer all questions.

I was just glad to get you out of your closet just like Vanboxingfan who tries very hard to be impartial but always takes the bait.

 

Lenni sure does have some persistent nuthuggers, who just need a bait to come out of their closet.

Anyways do not derail this thread. Holyfield deserves a higher ranking than Lenni.

 

Holyfield carried on fighting because of money problems. He was an idiot that way, I read he once donated $20 million to a church when he had so many bills to pay under the pretext of that his paster told him that it was good for him.

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Point being he ducked Ruiz and Byrd which has been well documented, he could have fought Tyson in 1996 if he really pressed the matter but he chose to accept step aside money. These are all documented facts. Twist them to suit your Lenni nut huggery.

Its pretty simple, one fighter was fighting at the absolute prime and top of his game and i quote "I came along sweet fine wine and got better with my craft, matured later" while the other was absolutely shot and finished. No one denied it was a steller performance by Lenni who did whatever he was suppossed to do but at the same time it wasn't really a credible win just like Tyson's win over Holmes is denied all credibility by his detractors. Can't pick and choose whenever convenient.

He could have fought on till his late 40's which he didn't. He should have ideally left a lot earlier, maybe even before the Lewis fight but thank goodness he left earlier than Holyfield who has slurred from brain damage.

Thank fully most sensible people would disagree with you on that one.

Not really the Mccall stoppage was absolutely justified. Holmes in the snipes knockdown gets up on steady legs and walks back to his corner on steady legs and in a very calm manner. Lenni's legs were shaking and wobbling and he did not respond to the referee when spoken too. The referee justifiably stopped the fight as the fighter did not respond. It was within the rules of the sport.

Well the way i look at it, they took a huge risk, they risked their lives and health and came out unharmed. But these 2 would be higher on most people HOF list compared to Chinni Lenni and rightfully so.

Not against guys Lenni went to life and death with. A lion does not get knocked out and starched like an over protected girl from one big shot to the face. Also being scared to knock out a stationary mental patient is hardly called avenging but then again the girl was aware of his limitations i.e. his china face so can't really blame him there.

You can place him No 1, even higher than Ali for all i care but dont spam this thread and expect a vast majority of others to agree with you.

Just like you will go to any length to over play the most insigificant things for him. Loosing to a guy just renowned for being a sparing partner is bad enough, losing like an over protected girl via one big shot to the face is even worse, then refusing to take out a stationary mental patient is even more pathetic, over playing the fact that he avenged a defeat to an overglorified sparring partner when it should never have happened in the first place and when the victory in the rematch was nothing steller is even more embarrassing.

Point being this was not a Joe Frazier, Mohd Ali he was rematching and that is a fact. People need to stop overplaying his victory in a rematch against a horrible opponent.

Because plain and simple that was a lucky win under controversial circumstances and so many questions were being asked that a rematch with Vitali was justified and highly demanded. It was pathetic to see Lenni promising the rematch and then bailing out at the last minute, retiring and citing mommy, wify as an excuse.

After the Tyson fight, Lenni spoke very openly about wanting to fight for another year or two because of many easy money fights out there. He was certainly not shot in the Vitali fight and as you say he came in at 50%, i would say he was more ring rusty at best but the fact is he ran away from a justified rematch which will be a stigma on his legacy. Everyone can see how his desire, motivation went out of the window the moment he realized he would be up against the Klitschkos.

Lenni is not an insult, its a shortcut to his name. No need to take everything personally, it just shows your sad blatant nuthuggery was such a chinny girl

Mccall is an over glorified sparring partner. It is funny to see the hypocricy of the Lenni chinny cant take a punch to the face Lewi nuthuggery crowd when they say Mccall isn't a D grade fighter. Well guess what, this D grade fighter lost to Buster Douglas. But yet Tyson is riddiculled for loosing to a D grade fighter in Buster Douglas. So if Douglas beat Mccall, does that mean he is a B grade fighter and that Tyson lost to a B grade fighter in Tokyo or Mccall is actually in reality a D grade fighter?

Which one is it?

Well for a guy of his height, reach, power and strength, he never always fought like a big guy when he should have in certain fights. He should have certainly put on a much better showing against a faded Holyfield than he did especially in the second fight.

A lenni nuthugger will never concede to these things. Never mind

Ofcourse deliberately targetting an eye of the opponent with the intention of blinding him is perfectly sporting right? Tyson would do certain things outside the ring to sell fights, i don't think anyone has ever defended him for the ear biting incident, i only provided video evidence to show what Evander had been doing in the bout and what prompted Tyson to react in frustration (which ofcourse doesn't make it right regardless).

Oliver Mccall and Hasim Rahman are D level fighters at best. Buster Douglas even beat Oliver Mccall, unless you want to concede Buster Douglas was not a D level fighter.

Oh shut up, i have seen it all before. Lenni didn't take the fight seriously, Lenni was under prepared, blah blah. He had a girly face following which he had to reach out to Emanuel Steward.

 

Which is what exactly? Altitude, Lenni didn't take Mccall seriously, Mccall unfairly sucker punched Lenni? You can't train a girly face, period. No excuses.

Who is making excuses for the year biting incident?

A Lion does not go down like an over protected girl via one big shot to the face twice. Sure, feel welcome to put him at no 7,8 but not before Holyfield.

To the contrary the ear biting incident propelled his fame to new horizons, got him into the WWE, got him his own cartoon series, got him movie contracts, got him an autobiographies. The guy in question Holyfield has not only long forgiven him but they are good friends now so moot point.

Yes Buster Douglas who beat Oliver Mccall comfortably, but Mccall is not a D level fighter but Buster Douglas is. Which one is it?

Chinny girl lost to Oliver Mccall (who lost to Buster Douglas) and then Hasim Rahman who has done jack in boxing after that money shot on Lenni's girly face. Just exposing facts, not hating at all.

Foreman chose to retire, he doesn't need to lose sleep over an irrelevant entity like Jimmy Young.

That was Douglas's decision not Tyson's. Not more terrible than a Chinny girl who got chinned like an over protected girl twice in his prime to fighters not even heard off.

Holyfield is a hall of famer and better than Lenni, nothing embarrassing in that.