Evander Holyfield vs Muhammad Ali, 12 rounds. Prime for prime.

Prime Holyfield has better tools and and an engine that equls Ali's.

His double jab is equal of Ali's jab, his chin equals Ali's, his mobilty equals Ali's, his straight right (see Buster Douglas ko) is equal of Ali's..Ali might have the speed advantage but im not so sure as early HW Holy was very fast.
BUT he has better body punching, infighting, better hooks & uppercuts.

A far busier Holyfield outworks Ali for a UD, I just don't see a way Ali can beat him.

 

Holyfield did have the quickness and coordination of a smaller man. That would be an asset against Ali who was so fluid and fast. Evander could fire of combinations in 2s and 3s in his prime years.

With that said I think Ali`jab would be a huge roadblock for Hoylfield. He wouldn`t be able to cope with it. Ali was the bigger man and the quicker man with the better boxing skills.

Ali by clear UD in a good fast fight. 10-5

 

His chin may be equal to Ali but no way he can jab with Ali. He can`t beat Ali from the outside or match Ali`s footwork. His only chance would be on the insde or maybe at midrange. Ali is going to keep him moving keep him turning.

Holyfield would win a few rounds but I don`t think the styles here play in his favor.

 

Prime 67 Ali , easily beats prime 91 Holy most likely by comfortable decision..

 

You don't see how prime Ali beats Holyfield? You cannot compare their respective records. Ali fought a who's who of great contenders...best ever and this includes the fact that Ali lost 4 years of his true prime. We never saw the very best Ali. At his best he was too quick to be hit enough to be beat. Magnificent ability to slip punches..ultra quick reflexes. Just his wins over Foreman, Frazier and Liston alone trumps Holy. Finally NO trainer or historian I am aware of and I know many think prime Ali would ever lost to Holy. There is a reason why Ali is always rated way above Holy....

 

Holyfield's hwt record. 27-10-2. (one draw, one NC)

 

Houdini, this is including about 18 years (exaggeration- don't go nuts.) too long fighting.

To include all these losses is disingenuous and confirmation bias to suit your agenda.

 

If we stop both their careers at age 36, Ali after the Spinks fights, saving him from the Holmes and Berbick losses, and Holyfield after Bean, saving him from many wins and losses.

Both end up with 3 losses at heavyweight.

 

John, for you to poo-poo Ali like you are makes you as much of an Ali hater with an agenda as Houdini is an Ali nuthugger.

Quality of opposition only gets you so far; there are tons of examples of fighters who don't have the best opposition and are widely accepted as capable of competing with other ATG's.

And for you to say that Ali's opposition wasn't as good as Holyfield's or, even further, not good at all, immediately discredits you and eliminates you from credibility.

I'll take Frazier, Liston, Foreman, Norton, Quarry, Ellis, Patterson, and Bonavena over Tillis, Thomas, Dokes, Douglas, Cooper, Mercer, Tyson, and Bowe.

 

Yes, but is that a reflection of Ali's ability? No.

Just because his opposition was poor in his prime years doest mean he couldn't have done the same to a higher caliber of opposition. I think he more than proved that later...

 

John knows nothing of boxing or it's history. Like arguing with a child. I say he is in his early 20's.

Holy would have a total record of 18-3 if you stop his career after the Bean fight. That's 21 total hwt fights.

Ali after the Spinks bouts was 54-3.

No comparison.

Holy does not rank with Ali in any regard. Don't get me wrong I cheered for Holy in every one of his bouts but he just does not rank with Ali. Top two all timer vs a fringe top 10er.

 

Of course Ali was prime in the 60s. This was his physical peak as an athlete yet we never saw him at his best since his FOUR best prime years he could not fight. Ali after peak...not at his best was still good enough to beat Foreman, Frazier, Shavers, Lyle, Bugner, Norton, Quarry, Chuvalo, Bonevena, Ellis...a who's who of all time great champions and contenders. Again he beat all these fighters AFTER his peak.

 

Agreed, but I think his point is that Holyfield does the same thing to Ali's 60's opponents, which should go without saying.

Jeffries has a very small amount of fights and people rank him way up there...

Holyfield's record doesn't compare but there shouldnt be doubt that he could be competitive with Ali, at least as competitive as Ali's higher-caliber opponents...

 

Completely wrong. Jeffries was undefeated until he came back after years of inactivity to fight Johnson. He beat Corbett, Fitzsimmons, Sharkey..these were the greatest hwts of that time....ATG fighters.

Most including myself would pick the Frazier and Foreman at the very least to beat Holy and more than likely Knock him out over a 15 round bout.

All those bouts were against past prime Ali. Prime Ali beats all those fighters easier than he did past prime. In his prime no one came close to beating Ali. Holy would follow suit. He like all those who tried would be stymied by Alis reflexes both hand and foot.

Alis hand speed was quicker than SRR. That's a hwt with better than the quickest middleweights speed.

 

Great comeback lil boy.

Just an FYI..I cheered against Ali in every bout he had...and I saw them all as they occurred from Frazier in 71 to his loss to Berbick. I like you now was a young kid not very knowledgable of the sport or is history.

In retrospect I was just that...young and inexperienced. Today I look back not just at the Ali era but all eras and all hwt champions and realize what a special talent Ali was. Fighters like Ali, Louis, Dempsey, Marciano come along rarely. Very rare talents with ingrained toughness, will to win, great athleticism. He was indeed the best. Very rare to find such a great boxer that at the same time was so tough with such a powerful will to win. Again..like Louis and other top hwt greats a unique talent. Unfortunately we never saw him at his best. More than likely he would have had 10-15 more title defenses during that time.

To answer your last ignorant question....the lost art of boxing in the hwt division are the abilities to feint, parry, slip, bob and weave and block punches and then counter to vital areas of an opponents body. These are the finer points of the game...the difficult to master points of the game.