Evander Holyfield vs Vitali Klitschko

4 inches isn't 1 foot. where are you from? keen to know which part of the world still doesn't educate people on feet and inches. You sill in cubits over there?

 

hey good post Herol, you ok?

 

LOL

You believe Evander was actually 6 foot 2?

I suppose you are also one of those who believed that Mike Tyson was 6 foot 0?

For God's sake

 

Holyfield was an 80s fighter.

He started his career in the 1980s (1984)

He won his first Cruiserweight title in the 1980s (1986)

He first fought at HW in the 1980s (1989) against Michael Dokes.

So by your own definition you are the moron as you claim Holyfield was a 90s HW.

By every possible defintion- Holyfield was an 80s fighter, even your own one.

 

Holy was never the smartest of fighters. That's what made some fighters harder than they had to be.

How do you expect him to bewilder Vitali?

Also Vitali is not a clubbing puncher. He overwhelms with volume.

 

And the fact this 80s fighter was competitive against top rankers in 2008 proves the shockingly low level of talent the Klitschko brothers ruled over.

Its as clear as day the gap in quality to anybody who isn't a biased fan. Its like saying Man utd now was better than the Man utd squad of 1996. Even QPR of the mid 90's would beat Man utd today.
Boxing is the only sport where you get weirdos championing the lesser side.

 

his HW title fights vitali level were in 90s.

his HW title fights Vitali level) were in the 90s.

8 months before the 90s, and not at vitali world level.

hey yeh I did claim he was a 90s HW to be compared with title level vitali. NOT!

by every possible definition, Holyfield fighting world level HWs was in the 90s.

However, in your defence, Holyfield fought at SUB-WORLD "continental level" in 1989 at HW. Not really world level at all then, you flop there too.

 

Look Jerry

A fighter who turns pro in 1984 is a 1980s fighter.

A fighter who first fights at HW in the 1980s is known as a 1980s HW.

That is the normal definition.

Stop trying to nuance this with the word "championship" because you got caught with your trousers down by your ankles in front of pron hub, and daddy walked in on you.

You got caught, suck it up and stop being slippery.

 

lets put it to poll and find out.

you are going to get publically humiliated but you asked for it, poll thread is here - [url]http://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/would-you-describe-evander-holyfield-predominantly-as-a-80s-hw-or-a-90s-hw.575725/#post-18228338[/url]

 

This holy fanboy / Klitschko's haters ignore reality.

He's 1-1 vs. Moorer and 1-4 vs. Bowe and Lewis on fair score cards.

He got floored and received some home cooking by Bert Cooper, could not convincingly beat an older Larry Holmes ( got cut in the process ), and looked poor vs Vaughn Bean.

Not likely to beat Vitali. Want more? He was Ko'd by a blown up middleweight, and 1-1-1 vs John Ruiz!

Enough. Vitali batters him around the ring.

 

Not really a convincing argument though is it?
He bombed Cooper out of there - no 'home cooking' was needed.
Holmes looked close to death after receiving a very comprehensive drubbing. Never heard anybody bring that result into question before.

What about his wins against Foreman and Tyson? You're selecting multiple variations of Holyfield from a career than spanned 3 generations.
Is this fantasy match-up prime Vitali vs past prime Holyfield. Is that the only way your man can win?

You need inside skills to compete with a prime Holyfield. Vitali has none , nor has he any defence to compensate for keeping his hands low.
Lewis got a debatable decision against a faded Holyfield. A terrible half retired Lewis destroyed Vitali. That's a more rationale case for a Holyfield win than a Vitali win by using your own logic.
How about pointing out all Vitali's best wins to make your case. What performance of his stood out to you the most?

 

Watch the film. Cooper was a sub in late replacement. A fringe contender type, and he floored and hurt Holyfield. IMO, the ref gave Holyfield a bit more than 10 seconds before letting Cooper continue.

Holmes was competitive vs Holyfield, and he was old! If anything, this fight when Holy was in his absolute prime shows Larry would have beaten him if he was in his prime.

Foreman was old and slow. Tyson, post-prison wasn't the same. It was a great win, but the 5'9" post-prison Tyson is nothing close to 6'7" inch, Vitali.

Clearly, Holyfield 1-4 vs Lewis struggled vs bigger skilled men. Vitali fights, and unlike Bowe or Lewis is not likely to be floored. So there's some logic for you.

Holyfield was erratic. He could be outboxed and gassed at times. He also had issues with good jabbers in Moorer, Lewis, and Bowe. More logic...Vitali had a good and active jab too.

Holyfield did best vs men his size or shorter ( omit a fat Douglas ) , and even Bobby Czyz and Vaughn Bean ,made him look off. Vitali beat the tar out of Bean and was the only man to stop him. That fight took place in Bean's prime. Holy took a decision vs Bean. Larry Donald beat Holyfield, Vitali knocked him out. Once again, Vitali was the only man to stop Donald.

Which Vitali performance do you want, he dominated all scorecards, only losing via injury or once on cuts, and by the way, Holyfield was cut more often in his career. So unless you think a torn shoulder which happened in less than 3% of Vitali's fights will happen, he's likely the winner here.

 

I'm of the opinion that Holyfield would beat Vitali in a similar fashion to the way he beat Foreman. Movement, angles, fast combos, on the inside ripping away at VKs body. Every time Vitali misses with that long right-hand Holyfield will bust him with a counterpunch.

It would take an absolute peak Holyfield with laser focus staying on his game plan, but assuming he does this I think he would out point him over 12 rounds..

I respect the opinions of those who think Vitali would win as Holyfield did struggle with bigger men, but Bowe who gave Holyfield so much trouble was a great inside fighter which VK isnt. And to me Lewis was better than VK in almost every department and Holyfield was competitive with a prime Lewis when he himself was past his best days..

 

Foreman is a harder guy to beat than Vitali. Of that i have no doubt. Peter and Arroela don't see past 4 rounds vs big George and end the fight on their backs.
Guys like Johnson and Kingpin who took Vitali the distance also end the fight looking up to the rafters.
The Lewis who turned up to fight Vitali and done nothing but plod forward face first gets knocked out in toe curling fashion.
Vitali's pawing jab was nowhere near as good or powerful as Foreman's battering ram of a jab. He would certainly get around Vitali's jab no problem.

Its really as simple as this- If a far greater HW lewis couldn't batter a faded Holyfield around the ring , then the lesser Vitali hasn't a prayer against a prime version.
As i said , he is too one dimensional and Holyfield has far too many variables .

What performance ? Thats what i asked you? How many rounds did Mike Tyson lose in his career before 1996?
Valeuv had practically dominated everybody before he got out pointed by an ancient Holyfield.
Stats are just stats.
Vitali hasn't the wins against top tier opposition. I don't know of any performance he ever produced that would make him favourite to beat a genuine ATG.

 

Bonecrusher,

Foreman was old and slow. He got the beat up and should have lost to Alex Stewart! The judges gave it to the story and boxing didn't want to lose an older golden goose type. Score that fight if you dare... Maybe you can argue a draw.

Foreman got outboxed by Tommy Morrison! News flash, Morrison probably won the same amount of as than Holyfield did vs. Foreman. Maybe more. Yikes!

Yes, Foreman upset Moorer, but only because he was blown up light heavy with a weak chin at heavy and fought stupidly, well up on points.

And Foreman lost to Shultz.

This is the man you're basing your opinion on? It does not wash. Vitali would likely stop Foreman or win 10-2 or better, making a mess of him.


VK can use body shots and uppercuts. To say he doesn't in fight is bogus, and his defense with his height, combined with foot movement, and good reflexes means he's tough to hit. Even Lewis said so.

Counterpunch? Sure Holy was good at that vs. Men shorter than him or even in height for the most part. Vitali is pretty good on the counter too. I didn't see much counter punching vs Bowe who had less defense than Vitali or vs Lewis, did you?

He's also more active in terms of punching output, and unlike Lewis or Bowe, who Holyfield really did not hurt has an iron chin.