Everyone seems to be all over Arum for the fight being cancelled BUT...

bonds · Jan 11, 2010

PH|LLA said: ↑

he proposed 24 days instead.

From what I understand that 14 day window was set up because they said that Pacquiao took blood against Hatton 14 days before the fight. It turned out that was actually 24 days and not 14. Which is why the final offer was 24.
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what was pacs reason as to why he rejected pbf's proposal of a 14 day window? Are we just to assume that because he took a blood test 24 days before the Hatton fight and did fine that should be the limit as to how close pac can take a blood test?

Hermit · Jan 11, 2010

PH|LLA said: ↑

he proposed 24 days instead.

From what I understand that 14 day window was set up because they said that Pacquiao took blood against Hatton 14 days before the fight. It turned out that was actually 24 days and not 14. Which is why the final offer was 24.
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I'm still looking for a valid link that said the 14 days was put on the table during negotiations. They went in with ONE friggin issue yet the reports I read say they offered the 14 days AFTER mediation? WTF? One issue...

PH|LLA · Jan 11, 2010

bonds said: ↑

what was pacs reason as to why he rejected pbf's proposal of a 14 day window? Are we just to assume that because he took a blood test 24 days before the Hatton fight and did fine that should be the limit as to how close pac can take a blood test?
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Pac counterproposed the 14 days with 24 days. The reason is that the 14 days was set up based on when GBP said Pac took the blood tests against Hatton, but it turned out that it was 24 days. Therefore, it was a very logical counterproposal.

Rooney · Jan 11, 2010

Hermit said: ↑

I'm still looking for a valid link that said the 14 days was put on the table during negotiations. They went in with ONE friggin issue yet the reports I read say they offered the 14 days AFTER mediation? WTF? One issue...
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Pac knew about the 14 day offer since January the 1st. Arum even confirms this.

CYoungblood95 · Jan 11, 2010

^^if you been in the forums the past few days you will see the article floating around where arum admits that the 14 day cutoff was proposed BEFORE mediation and that he was lying when he said it wasnt...I have read on one of the major sites (espn or yahoo i cant recall) that pac has known about the 14 day offer since jan 1st.

timmyjames · Jan 11, 2010

bucktrain said: ↑

He said to give him a source, just because YOU said it doesnt mean JACK ****
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seriously man, it's all over the place

PH|LLA · Jan 11, 2010

PH|LLA said: ↑

Pac counterproposed the 14 days with 24 days. The reason is that the 14 days was set up based on when GBP said Pac took the blood tests against Hatton, but it turned out that it was 24 days. Therefore, it was a very logical counterproposal.
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hey bond you seen this?

AFBlues · Jan 11, 2010

Really long post. Same song and dance with a different spin. Nothing new here.

bonds · Jan 11, 2010

PH|LLA said: ↑

hey bond you seen this?
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No from what I understood Floyds camp wanted only a 2 day window and Pacs camp countered with 24 days. Floyds countered with 14 days and then Pacs said no deal and signed with Clottey.

So i had thought pacs camp proposed 24 days first (after the 24/7 info came out) and then floyds countered with 14 days afterwards.

Am i wrong?

Hermit · Jan 11, 2010

bonds said: ↑

No from what I understood Floyds camp wanted only a 2 day window and Pacs camp countered with 24 days. Floyds countered with 14 days and then Pacs said no deal and signed with Clottey.

So i had thought pacs camp proposed 24 days first (after the 24/7 info came out) and then floyds countered with 14 days afterwards.

Am i wrong?
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That's what I've asking. The only credible links I saw said they didn't bother even offering it during the mediation because it was turned down prior. Well then WTF did they do for nine hours? The only link anyone has provided me that says different is from some site where ANYONE can write and submit an article. I don't think either of these guys wanted this fight right now.

sdsfinest22 · Jan 11, 2010

timmyjames said: ↑

I go this from another poster somewhere, but it shows all the backpedaling and inconsistencies in the Pac camp over ths whole fiasco:

December 11:

Freddie Roach: I have no problem with the testing whatsoever. They can do whatever (Keyword: Whatever) kind of drug testing that they want.

December 22:

Early today Richard Schaefer, CEO of Golden Boy Promotions, was contacted by Top Rank President Todd duBoef, who informed Schaefer that Pacquiao would not agree to have his blood taken within 30-days of the bout based on the fighters superstition of testing so close to a fight.

Richard Schaefer: Todd told me that Pacquiao has difficulty with taking blood and doesnt want to do it so close to the fight. He, Pacquiao, would only agree to have blood drawn before the kick-off press conference and after the fight.

In that same day,

Freddie Roach: A urine test is just as qualified as a blood test. [Human growth hormone] is not detected by blood or urine.

How is HGH test done?

More than one blood sample must be taken on different days, due to rapid changing levels of growth hormone. A test measuring IGF-1 levels may be taken in conjunction, as its levels change much slower. Before blood is drawn, the administering health professional should be informed of any disorders or medication being taken which can lead to bleeding at the site of the puncture.

December 23:

Bob Arum: Manny says that taking blood from him really weakens him. And he doesn't want to do it when he's in training, but he'll do it prior to going into training, and after the fight. Every major doctor will tell you that blood testing shows absolutely nothing.

Freddie Roach: For the record, Pacquiao (Remember, he said Pacquiao) is willing to have his blood drawn before he starts training and after the fight to be tested for steroids and performance enhancing drugs. Its not like Pacquiao is saying no to drugs.

December 24:

Arum: This kid has a phobia for getting his blood drawn.

December 25:

Manny Pacquiao plans to sue Floyd Mayweather, the American's father and Golden Boy Promotions in the next few days following a row over doping procedures, the Filipino world champion said in a statement on Friday.

NYDailyNews. Tim Smith,

This isn't some issue that just came about. It has been a part of the contract negotiations for weeks. According to a source familiar with the talks, Pacquiao's representatives asked what penalties Pacquiao would face if he tested dirty, and also if a dirty test result could be kept secret so that the integrity of the fight wouldn't be ruined in the public eye.

December 26:

Manny Pacquiao: I have offered to give a blood sample the day of the announcement of the fight at the Press Release. I have offered to give a blood sample 30 days before the fight. I am willing to give blood immediately after the fight is over inside my dressing room. I am also willing to give urine tests at anytime any where everyday leading up to the fight. The truth is taking blood out of my body does not seem natural to me and mentally I feel it will weaken me if blood is taken from me just days before the fight.

December 28

Manny Pacquiao: I do not have anything to prove (to them) and hopefully, they would not succeed in destroying my image and the sport of boxing in the way they want it done. They want to dictate and step on the authority of the organizations including the Nevada State Athletic Commission. I am not guilty and I dont have to prove anything because I have passed all tests in all my previous fights. I will all just see you in court.

December 30:

David Tyler interviews Freddie Roach.

Freddie Roach: HGH cannot be detected by blood, saliva, or urine. The doctors I've talked to said that HGH and any growth harmone cannot be detected by any test.

David Tyler: Fred, I have a graduate's degree in Biochemistry and 30 years experience in developing blood chemistry tests.....I'll leave it alone, let's move foward.

Freddie Roach: No wait, you can't tell me that there is a test that can detect HGH or growth harmones.

David Tyler: Fred, I'm not here to make you mad.

Freddie Roach: I'm not mad, I'm telling you that you are wrong if you think there is a test for HGH.

David Tyler: Ok Fred, so you are saying that HGH cannot be detected by a blood test?

Freddie Roach: Absolutely, 100%, NO! Saliva, blood, or urine.

Mayweather agreed to cut off testing 14 days before the fight and to have it administered by the Nevada Athletic Commission.

Bruce Binkow, the chief marketing officer of Golden Boy Promotions, on Dec. 30 offered a 14-day cutoff as a compromise via instant message to Top Rank president Todd duBoef, who replied on Dec. 31 that 14 is no good.

Schaefer said he believes the fight can be salvaged over the weekend and the first step is making certain that Pacquiao is aware of Mayweathers 14-day offer. There are reports [on the Internet] that Manny is not aware of this and we want to make certain that he knows what Floyd has agreed to do, Schaefer said.

However, Koncz said he was informed of the offer by promoter Bob Arum and that he brought it directly to Pacquiao, who would not even consider it. Koncz said Pacquiao was very firm in his decision.

Bob called and told us about the 14 days and I brought that to Manny and he said, I told you, were not agreeing to that, and that was pretty much it, Koncz said.

Schaefer called Mayweathers offer a very fair, very reasonable compromise solution and said Mayweather is still eager to fight Pacquiao on March 13. Both Schaefer and Mayweather Promotions CEO Leonard Ellerbe have denied speaking to any potential other opponents, though Mayweather has been linked through numerous published reports with Paulie Malignaggi.

Weve focused solely on getting a fight done with Manny Pacquiao and thats it, Ellerbe said.

Manny would be willing to fight Mayweather, but the tenor of negotiations would be a lot different in the future, Koncz said. Manny was very accommodating before, because he wanted to get this fight done and to satisfy the fans, who wanted it very much. Billing is important to Manny, but he gave that up to accommodate Mayweathers ego because [Manny] wants to go out as the best fighter there ever was and, clearly, Mayweather is one of the best.

But given what happened, Manny wont make those concessions if they come back to us.

Dr. Don H. Catlin, the head of the Los Angeles-based non-profit Anti-Doping Research, Inc., said a 24-day cutoff for blood testing is not sufficient to prevent abuse. One of the concerns with such a long blood-testing cutoff prior to the date of competition would be the potential use of Erythropoietin, or EPO.

But Catlin said that wouldnt be the only concern if there were a 24-day cutoff imposed.

If you have a 24-day window thats free, with no testing, you can take whatever you want and youre not going to get caught, end of story, Catlin said. [Urine testing] does matter, yes, but theyre not going to catch everything by urine testing alone. What you would do is to take Mircera [a type of EPO], which is available and which is not easy to detect in urine and away you go. You need a blood test.

The Mayweather fight is the fight the world wants to see, Roach said. Its going to be the biggest pay-per-view fight of all time. But I think we will fight one fight before that.

Roach said that Pacquiaos schedule will be constructed around his political ambitions and the elections in the Philippines on May 10. But there is a March date for him to fight, Roach said. People think I am crazy but I want him to win his eighth title against Yuri Foreman at 154lb. Thats my idea then fight Mayweather in September. And then retire.

The way Roach sees it, there will be no further blemishes on Pacquiaos record by the time he greets retirement, although he does concede that Mayweather will be the hardest fight of his life.

Mayweathers a very difficult fight for Manny, he said. It wont be physically the hardest, but it will be the hardest fight of his life style-wise. Mayweather is talented and hes good at defence. I have a very good game plan for him, but Im sure a lot of other guys thought that along the way.

Well have a ten-week training camp. We have to work on a lot of new moves, we have to improve in certain areas to win that fight. And would he expect his man to win? Oh yes. Without a doubt.

"If they give me a 5-day window or something like that I have no problem with it," Roach said. "When they've drawn blood from Manny in the past he feels weaker for three or four days. It may be mental, but it's there."
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