Examples of Joe Louis' chin?

This. George in Zaire wasn't anywhere near as experienced or proven as the top competition Louis was fighting. Fast combinations and excellent timing were always a major weakness of Foreman in both his prime and his comeback.

 

Joe was washed up after 1971 and merely coasting off his name. Look how fat and out of shape he is. Frazier was 214 lbs, which is almost 10lbs over were he was most effective. He was was slow as molasses after the FOC, since he didn't have the hunger to train like he used to after making a ton of money with Ali. Anything over 205 lbs was too much for Frazier, since even at 208 lb he was noticeably slower and at 210+ he was very beatable just like Tyson over 220 lbs wasn't as effective and was useless at 230+ lbs.

Frazier 204 lbs. vs. Chuvalo

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Frazier actually has mobility and handspeed, Since he isn't if of shape.


Ftazoer 205 lbs. vs. Muhammad Ali

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Frazier's aggression and his ability to get his punches off fast won him this fight. Frazier would later put in two mediocre performances against Ali in two rematches, since he was out of shape in both fights.

Joe Louis in his prime never showed up 10 lbs overweight like Frazier did.

 

Good chin.

Galento, Marciano, Schmeling, Buddy Baer and Walcott could all punch. As noted, he did pretty good against the Rock, and Rock and Schmeling got through with a lot of punches rather than cracking him with one. He beat Walcott, Baer and Galento (even if a lot of folks felt Jersey Joe won the first).

Conn just wore him down in a fast paced fight. In any event, Louis did not go down and won that one and the rematch.

Braddock was not known as a puncher, but as the myth goes, he hit harder at the end of his career from building up his power on the docks. Maybe fanciful...but this would seem to be proof.

Never heard about Farr. Perhaps similar to Conn?

In any event, Louis fought a low percentage of cans in his career, because in the beginning his team needed him to appear to be legit at all times to sell the idea of a black champ. With 66 wins against 3 defeats, STARTING HIS CAREER with a guy who was 28-7, we can say he was stopped twice, once at the extreme end of his career, and down against three other guys (if I haven't forgotten anything).

Very good chin. Maybe not iron, but certainly some good grade of concrete.

 

You want to penalize Louis for that? M Baer hit him flush a couple of times and nothing happened.
You don't go 69 fights with only 2 stoppages against you ,[one when you were complacent and slightly pre-prime ,the other when you are an old man in boxing terms having your last fight,]if your chin is weak!

 

I've always held that Louis wasn't especially good in a H2H sense, mainly due to his lack of chin and defensive vulnerabilities. Foreman, for all his slowness and looping punches, was an expert at controlling the ring and maintaining range. Frazier couldn't get near him because he either pushed him off or turned him to the side, forcing Joe to reset. And while Foreman's jab wasn't especially fast, it was tremendously authoritative and well-timed, another obstacle for inside fighters to have to work through.

I think Joe has real problems getting past that jab, and dealing with Foreman's wrestling and manhandling. His speed and ability to sneak shots in over the guard might allow him to catch Foreman with his arms out, and if he can crack him sufficiently hard it might lead to further success, depending on how badly he shakes Foreman up. I'm using the Abe Simon fight as the basis for that particular scenario unfolding, as well as the mentally shot Foreman's defensive lapses against Young and Lyle. But that's not really a watertight argument, IMO.

 

Straight punches usually beat swings.

 

Good post putting forward one very feasible argument .

 

Thanks friend.

 

Like I said I judge chins when something lands to test then, and Mauriello who landed one significant shot early had a visible effect. Max Baer had to be pushed out of the dressing room and hardly landed much.

I've got the films, plus the recall here. If Conn, or Farr can stun you, and many other smaller / shorter / less skilled men can floor you, what happens to Louis if he's in there vs Liston, Foreman, Bowe, Lewis or Klitschko when they land?! Indeed, all of these guys hit harder than Schemling.

Or what happens when Louis is in there vs a good boxer who'd durability is much better than say Conn's or Walcott's? Ali, or Holmes who aren't going to be taken out late based on one or two big punches landed and enjoy a height, reach, and footwork advantage. Based on Louis' difficulty with boxers ( Schmeling, Conn, Walcott ) , Ali and Holmes might win easy.

 

I agree with much of this. Comparing Simon to Foreman?

 

Because he was easy to hit and didn't have a good chin, below average punchers like Braddock, Farr and Conn were able to shake Louis up.

If he had better defense, he would not be hit as often. If he had a better chin, their shots would not have had the visible effect that they did.

Boxing history is full of fighters who had good defense, but a so -so chin.

Boxing history is also full of mediocre boxers, who had excellent chins are were not shaken up by punchers on the level of Braddock, Farr, or Conn.

Boxing history also has its share of fighters with below average chins, and defense, but excellent skills on offense and a lot of power.

 

Walcott , Buddy Baer, Galento floored him who else?
Your history of knocking Louis is well recognized and documented.
Conn had durability problems? Who else stopped him?
Louis doesn't mention being stunned by Farr in his autobiography,when do you say this happened? Farr told my Father Louis gave him a "bloody good hiding",and that," just thinking about the fight made his nose hurt all over again"

Louis damaged his hand midway into that fight and said ,without the injury he thought he would have stopped Farr.
Ali and Holmes might well beat Louis, but WTF has that to do with the quality of his chin?

 

Oh, there were quite a few others who floored Louis. You left some names out. Your ability to read and retain facts needs work, presumably, you were much sharper say 30 years ago.

If you watch the films ( I think you don't ) You see Farr stunning Louis, I think around 9 or 11.

You see I give examples, backed up by films to make my points. They are medium hitters, and less than skilled men either stunned Louis or floored him. Defense and durability were not his strong suits.

Louis hurt one is his hands vs Farr, sounds like an excuse unless something was broken, and he still has the other hand. The scoring in this fight was terrible.

My point which I can expand upon is Louis was able to come back and beat Conn and Walcott, thanks to them being stupid, not very durable however, Ali and Holmes have much better durability and if he was in a fantasy fight with these two, expect no such miracle come from behind wins.

Had Louis vs Walcott 1 been on the 10 point must system, Walcott wins to the point where they could not rob him. As it was Walcott was robbed as 2/3 of those scoring and the crowd felt he won it.

Had Louis vs Conn been 12 rounds, a sub 170 pound man is the new champion.

 

You can state confidently Walcott was robbed in a fight you haven't seen the complete version of?
Wow you really are someone special
You haven't given anything ,and I was watching these fights before you were born!

Schmeling,Walcott,Galento B Baer,Braddock,Marciano floored him who else? Second time of asking!

Names please!

ps I'm a lot sharper than you'll ever be!

 

Think he had a great chin in his prime. I think the bar is raised so high on this forum that no one can possibly have a good chin. Wear and tear def had a lot to do with his later knock downs. Most people names some of the massive punchers he’s faced already so not going to go through that. But as much as I love big George (have him 3 all time and many think that’s a stretch) joes style to me gives Foreman nightmares. One of the best straight rights in history and with his hand speed he would land a lot. May get knocked down a few times in opening rounds but he wins it.