Examples of Joe Louis' chin?

Just to be clear, I'm not criticising Louis's chin in his own lifetime, since the results speak for themselves in that particular case. It's when assessing his chin across eras that I have to take issue with his durability. Any argument in favour of Louis hinges on the premise that he fought a similar number and quality of punchers than modern day champs, but judging by the stats and what I see with my own eyes I can't see that at all.

Therefore, while it's perfectly fine to say that Louis was durable enough for his era, that doesn't translate to me to being durable in any era.

How so? I don't get your line of reasoning here.

I can see arguments for Louis winning, but they hinge on Foreman being sloppy and letting Louis work on the inside, as well as Louis being resilient enough to hang with Foreman's heavy, thudding blows.

Foreman had a tendency to stand tall and keep his arms out when a fighter tried to close distance with him, and that occasionally made him vulnerable to shots over the top to his exposed chin. If Louis could catch him and stun him that might give him the opportunity to land further shots to a groggy, unravelling Foreman and potentially get the stoppage. It's not a totally unrealistic scenario; just an unlikely one.

More likely, IMO, Foreman controls him with his jab and two-handed push and busts him up against the ropes.

Foreman was one of the very best in the history of the sport at doing this though. Somewhere, something's got to give.

 

Louis fought more opponents who were currently ranked in the top ten, than any champion of the last forty years, by a ratio of two to one!

I would say that makes his chin pretty darn tested.

I have never been a fan of the argument that goes "fighter A knocked this guy down, so fighter B could knock him out."

Some fighters who are named among the best chins in the history of the heavyweight division, got dumped on their backside by heavyweights who were not particularly big, or not exceptionally hard punching.

I don't think that you can build a reliable case against a fighters chin, without using examples where they were actually stopped.

We obviously disagree on who the stylistic dynamic favors between Louis and Foreman, but that is perhaps taking the debate off piste a bit.

The issue being discussed is Louis's chin, and I think that he would be able to eat a few shots from Foreman to get the job done, if he needed to do so.

 

Can you (or anyone else) please identify some specific moments where Louis ate very hard, flush punches from big punchers without being wobbled or dropped?

 

Louis’ chin is an enigma. Galento and Buddy Baer, who have both become overrated as punchers (especially Galento), put Louis down but neither seemed to really stun him. And I once read an old Ring interview where Louis swore that Galento didn’t hurt him (can’t remember his alternative explanation though). So I’m not sure that those punches really show a weak chin so much as some other problem...maybe a momentarily lapse in attention or weak legs/core or something? He didn’t go down the time(s) Conn wobbled him but the same general principle seems to apply. Don’t know what to make of those fights really—it might help if people could produce counterexamples of him taking very hard punches well.

 

He took some from Max Baer, Abe Simon, and Buddy Baer.

Those guys hit as hard as nearly anybody, and he was obviously willing to take their punches, in order to prosecute his offense.

 

If Louis's chin is an enigma, then there is no such thing as a fighter whose chin is understood!

He fought more world class opponents than any other heavyweight champion in history.

There is pretty much nothing missing from his resume, in terms of style, or size of opponent.

His style required him to take some shots, in order to get the job done.

However good or bad his chin was, if we can't figure it out from his existing record, then we would probably never be able to!

 

When? Any specific punches in those fights that you thought demonstrate the quality of his chin? Specific rounds and time would be especially valuable and much appreciated!

 

It might help if you could direct us to specific punches. Times and rounds in specific fights would be invaluable.

 

You are kind of damned either way on this, because if nobody was able to hit him cleanly, then your argument that he was easy to hit rather goes out of the window.

 

He didn't take much from these three. The films she that.

Buddy landed, and floored him. Max hardly landed much. Simon was a limited defense heavy bag type, who had a lot of guts.

 

Pivoting away again? Rocky was floored twice in his career, how many times was Louis floored? I'll let you count, and correct you if needed.

 

You can't really win on this one.

However you try to argue it, a lot of world class opponents failed to stop him, over a lot of years.

If they weren't hitting him, than he must have had outstanding defense.

If they were hitting him, then he must have had a very good chin.

You can't have a fighter being successful at something for no reason!

 

That would be the only play left, and not a very good one!

 

Janitor, maybe we disagree on this key point. Most of his opponents were not very good. You can call Galento, B Baer, and a rusty Braddock " world class ". Looking at the films many champions post-Louis have a field day with these guys.

Some of the opponents I don't think are very good seldom hit Louis, but produced knockdowns when did.

It's on the films, watch them.

 

OK lets say that they were not very good.

The problem is that he beat almost everybody.

Even in weak eras there are always punchers.

You are not going to get a fifteen year period of the heavyweight division, where there is nobody who can hit like a falling sink.

So you come back to the same problem!