Expert opinions on Marciano VS Liston

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by swagdelfadeel, Dec 9, 2017.

Liston VS Marciano

  1. Liston by KO

  2. Liston by TKO

  3. Liston by UD

  4. Liston by MD/SD

  5. Draw

  6. Marciano by KO

  7. Marciano by TKO

  8. Marciano by UD

  9. Marciano by MD/SD

  10. No contest

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I know it's blasphemy to favor anyone over Maricano, but I actually think I'd favor Williams (ESB Please don't get butthurt over an opinion). 4-5 inches of height, 30 plus pounds, faster, hit harder, better boxer, and has a huge stytistical advantage. Patterson I would give a good chance, it's just his chin that I think would be his downfall. Machen's a live underdog but I think he gets stopped late while ahead on points. I don't give Folley much chance.
     
  2. outtieDrake

    outtieDrake Well-Known Member Full Member

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    whoever Marciano fought he effed them up, and he'd eff up marty.
     
  3. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Marciano was tested in the trenches and came out alive- Liston had the look - had some excellent gifts but never was in the mix with a puncher like Marciano. This fight would be determined by the ability to submit your will to win - Liston quit X2 so that crack in his armor sticks in my mind and who was the puncher Liston survived - Cleveland Williams who never showed real KO power in the upper top 20 brackets and was KO'd by 5'10 175lb Bob Satterfield - Sorry Sonny was KO'd in 1 by Ali got his jaw broke by 179 lb Marty Marshall when a novice and was ko'd by Leotis Martin 190 ish when old.... I can not give him a pass vs an ATG who could really Bang - I know the way it looks on paper and in the imaginations of the mind but Sonny quit X2 and its written in stone
    I am not going to argue or respond but IMO Sonny was an Iron statue with a serious crack in his armour that would not survive someone with a serious will to win and elite KO power.

    A mature Sonny had an offensive arsenal but his losses were because he quit, for Martin he was past it but went down and out and Martin was a fair puncher

    I can not give Sonny a speculation victory over an ATG because he never beat one- Patterson was dropped by one fight Rademaker and every other challenger KO'd by INGO - Sonny's best win but over a mentally weak Champion

    intangibles and tons of heart prevail - Marciano by KO 9 after getting hit - rocked and roughed- inside flurries and will to win - Marciano KO in 9 behind on points and bruised - Sonny takes the 10 count
     
  4. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Why didn't you answer my question? How many fights did Liston have before fighting Marshall? Who was Marciano fighting after that many fights?
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    Williams hit as hard as Marciano imo.
    Marciano never beat an ATG who was anywhere near his prime.
    Marciano never beat a 212lbs prime heavy who could hit like Liston.
    Marcianos best wins are over older men past their sell by date or former light heavies with a load of mileage on the clock.
    Give Liston his choice of styles to overcome and a short guy, with a tiny reach, a porous defence, basic defensive skill ,and a tendency to cut would be top of the list.
    At range Rocky gets his face jabbed off ,inside he is manhandled by the bigger, stronger man.
    Marciano was a grinder he gradually broke his best opponents down and most of them were older fellas, but before he did so he usually shipped significant punishment.Against Liston he would be taking the shots from one of the hardest punchers the division has seen.
    How does he win ? He isnt outboxing Liston, and he isnt outpunching him. By constant in your face pressure and heart?
    Come to Liston and you end up decapitated.
    All the heart in the world cannot compensate for ROCKY'S lack of stature here.He isn't facing a near 40 Moore, or a 38 years old Walcott ,he is getting in there with a prime 212lbs monster who hit like a truck with both hands and had a top class jab . Old Louis marked him up pretty bad with what was left of his jab ,Sonny would have him looking like a gargoyle . Mid rounds tko for Liston in a convincing and pretty onesided victory. It takes nothing away from Rocky, it's just the way it is.

    ps On the subject of heart,Liston got his jaw broke but continued the fight to lose a split decision.Williams broke Sonny's nose and ended up a tangled mess on the canvas.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2020
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  6. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    This question will not get a reply!
     
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  7. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    To your knowledge?What knowledge is that?lol
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    Ring Magazine 1951 unlike you I don't lie. You said Louis was the number 1 contender then you produce the NBA rating which place him at no2.
    I could produce the direct quote from the referee its in Skehan's book. You just keep calling me a liar,you the biggest twister of the truth this forum has seen.What has Wlad to do with a 39/40 years old 188lbs ex light heavyweight ?
    Having your jaw broke whilst a novice and continuing to see the fight out to lose by split dec is not a mark of shame.
    If a novice Marciano had been in Liston's place you would be loudly trumpeting it as evidence of his heart and triumphing over adversity.
    You're a hypocrite .
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
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  9. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Such blatant intellectual dishonesty. Disgraceful.
     
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  10. SerbianLoudmouth

    SerbianLoudmouth Overhand right-Suzie Q banned Full Member

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    Marciano had a mix of Swarmer and Slugger but people only give Marciano credit for his Swarmer style when in fact he put 100% of his power behind each punch, sounds a bit like a slugger. Thing about a Swarmer is there often in more of a crouch and is trying to wear his opponent down and then KO the other guy. I couldn't really put slugger into terms into my mind so i turned to good old Wikipedia- Brawler If the out-fighter represents everything classy about boxing, the brawler (also known as the 'slugger', 'hard hitter' or 'one puncher') often stands for everything that's wrong with the sport. Hmm the bold sounds like Marciano - but yet Sluggers oftne don't have the Stamina to go beyond at most 7 rounds without beginning to lose some edge- examples-George Foreman,Sonny Liston,and I believe Earnie Shavers as well. So Marciano is hybrid between Slugger and Swarmer because he shows Many Slugger Attributes, and yet has the stance (somewhat) and Stamina of a Swarmer. Any way getting back to what we were talking about, what they're doing is taking fighters from different periods in their careers and comparing them to Prime marciano, to be honest Prime to Prime I give Marciano a chance with anybody that ever fought, does that mean I think he could win against any fighter no. The reason I give Marciano the edge is because he had unmatched Heart, His stamina gave him the ability to go many many rounds throwing his best punches and taking punishment and still be fresh, and finally his punching power was great and in both hands. He had KO power in either hand.
     
  11. SerbianLoudmouth

    SerbianLoudmouth Overhand right-Suzie Q banned Full Member

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    He was bigger than Liston not only taller but wider man!
     
  12. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Williams certainly hit lesser fighters as hard as Marciano might have hit them. Trouble is this was never the case when he fought elite fighters was it? In that scenario Williams was always punched out of position to land that well. And this is precisely why Sonny Liston wiped the floor with him. And exact Why all great punching champions would have too.

    well how can this stand up? When a fighter is fresh off his best ever two wins, as Walcott was, it would be unusual to say he was not his best. In what other circumstance would a fighter not be “anywhere near his best” after producing his best ever wins? Same with Archie Moore. The guy had smashed up Harold Johnson, BoBo Olson, Bob Baker and twice beaten Nino Valdes the number one heavyweight contender at that time. When was a challenger ever doing so well? Charles has just smashed up Satterfeild and Colley Wallace. Highlight reel knockouts. How could he be “no where near his prime” blasting two rated fighters in such style?

    yes this sounds exact Like Albert westphall. a short guy, with a tiny reach, a porous defence, basic defensive skill. But I don’t think many people would regard Rocky Marciano as the same caliber fighter to Albert.

    Yes. Rocky would be facing one of the hardest punchers in the division. And the same is true for Sonny. He would be facing one of the hardest punchers in the division too. Swapping punches. Both guys landing.

    There is a theory that a crowded fighter can have his leverage smothered you know.

    well that certainly was Albert Westphals experience wasn’t it? But you know, we have already discussed the difference between Westphall haven’t we?

    Yes, the highly rated 217lb logical contender on his 11 month 8-0 streak did mark up Rockys face. He used a defensive step off jab, the kind of jab Sonny didn’t use, in an effort to avoid the exhausting infighting and bulling of Marciano until he succumbed to the pace. Whereas Sonny would likely want meet Rocky head on, jab down, back him up and wind up exchanging inside. Possibly detrimentally exchanging inside too.

    Williams likely ends up “a tangled mess on the canvas” against any world champion. It’s no biggie.

    no the NBA listed the two “logical contenders” and Louis was one of them...The month he fights Marciano. That isn’t number two. That’s equal.

    I will stop calling you a liar when you stop claiming that I lie.

    it depends how much smaller than Marciano the opponent was. It’s difficult to say how heroic it is to lose to such a smaller man in the first place. But I admit these early fights really have no baring on the later championship form of a great fighter anyway.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  13. SerbianLoudmouth

    SerbianLoudmouth Overhand right-Suzie Q banned Full Member

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    He wouldn't!
    Williams and Patterson would be always beaten by that right because their chin sucked!
    Machen and Folley were poor man Ezzard Charles so they also wouldn't be a problem for Marciano!
     
  14. SerbianLoudmouth

    SerbianLoudmouth Overhand right-Suzie Q banned Full Member

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    Stupid comment!
    Favor Williams who lost against LHw Satterfield,Foster,Liston,Chuvalo,Ali...every man he faced he lost!
    Williams was 212 in his prime Marciano was 190 in his prime It is 22 lb!
    Williams was 6ft3 Marciano 5ft11 4 inches of difference which isn't anything!
    He was faster but also had very weak chin and stamina and his defense didn't exist!
    Also Cleveland is only one hand user which is stupid against Marciano who would tagged his open side like Satterfield did even Worse!
    Cleveland hit harder than Rocky?Only stupid man could say that!
    Not only Marciano had bigger KO ratio and more KOs but in ring magazine Keene Simmons who faced both stated that Rocky hit alot harder with both hands!
    Marciano knocked prime Simmons while Cleveland only UD older Simmons!
    Not only Simmons but also Bob Satterfield stated Marciano hit alot harder!
    Cleveland is just myth and you are just stupid because you said he hit harder than Marciano like people who said Ruddock hit harder than Foreman!
    How the hell Williams hit harder when Marciano not only had bigger KO ratio but also two common people stated Marciano hit harder?
     
  15. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The comment you replied to specified "prime Louis". Do you think the Louis in that picture is "prime"?