Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by swagdelfadeel, Dec 9, 2017.
The opinions are funny in hindsight. Doyle w the solid prediction. Probably bold for the time
Williams hit as hard as Marciano imo.
Sorry but you lost me there- Williams did not show power as a professional fighter in the RING - he was ko'd in 3 by 5'10 180 lb Bob Satterfield and his best opponents went the distance with him
Marciano never beat an ATG who was anywhere near his prime. Walcott- Moore-Charles Layne- where all dangerous opponents - far better than the frightened frozen weak chinned Floyd Patterson (Listons finest opponent
Marciano never beat a 212lbs prime heavy who could hit like Liston. Liston never fought anyone with near the power of Marciano and add will, heart & stamina to that- along with lack of fear
Liston had the look and looked great vs inferior opposition - Marty Marshall was not a hard puncher so I do not give Liston a purple heart for getting his jaw broke and staying 10 rounds in his loss to Marshall - Marshall was 6 ft 184lbs Burt Whitehurst lost by decision 2x vs Liston but was KO'd x2 by Archie Moore in the time time frame.
Liston lost 2X to Ali - Sonny quit in the first fight and was KO'd in 1 in the rematch by Ali - and older Liston was flattened by Leotis Martin
We can agree to disagree but IMO Liston was a good bully - was a strong 6 1/2 inch 212 lb fighter but he did have the quit against Ali and the first round KO loss from the right hand - Marshall was not a puncher and even Leotis would be listed as a decent puncher at most - I dont think Big Cat ever proved his power in the ring -
I don't think Liston could handle the mental pressure of an opponent that did not fear him or fired back and I really can not bank on his chin based on the Ali fight 1st round KO
unless you think he just quit in that fight also.
My opinion of Liston is that he had a great looking offense but had cracks in his armour and I am not sure where that weakness originated - In his head or in his heart?
I am traveling so have limited time to check my mail but it does not matter IMO Liston is overrated and I may also pick Walcott or Charles to beat him
Liston stated Williams was the best puncher he faced. So did Terrell
You don't think Williams was a big puncher? A 20 years old, late substitute Williams was kod by big puncher Satterfield .
Exactly what bearing has this on Williams punching power?
What evidence is there that DeJohn,Folley,Williams feared Liston,did they fight as though they did?
Getting your jaw broken in a fight and continuing that fight to lose a split dec would mean to any objective observer that you had heart.
I say Williams,DeJohn, Valdes, hit harder than anybody Marciano faced.
Name the top flight punchers Rocky met?
Leotis Martin hit hard enough to kill an opponent.
I saw him beat up Thad Spencer .
Okay he ko'd an old Sonny.Whose to say he would not have done the same to Rocky?
NB Whitehurst was knocked clean out of the ring in the second Liston fight he was in the process of trying to climb back in when the final bell rang saving him from a ko.
ps 60 kos in 90 fights tells me Williams hit like truck!
DO YOU KNOW HOW TO ****ING READ? YOU asked what Liston did better than Louis and I answered your question. I did not say Liston was or wasn't better than Louis. Jesus Christ.
A 37 year old Joe Louis would lose to Machen, Williams, and Patterson just to name a few.
He wonders why people get fed up with him. He deliberately twists your argument, attacks said argument (which you in fact never made), then has the audacity to get offended when numerous people call him a troll!
Think he beats Williams but agree on the other two
It seems that many of the points keep getting brought up in discussions of Liston but have no purchase on the interlocutors present.
The fact that Martin is brought up is laughable. And referring to the mess in Lewiston and Sonny's 8th fight aren't far behind.
You saw the great Thad Spencer live? You old.
Yes Arturo Godoy was trained by Charlie Goldman.
Martin and Spencer at the RAH was UK fight of the year.
I think Patterson beats old Joe Louis to be honest. I think Patterson would do to Joe what Ezzard was able to, run rings around him and bust him up. There is a chance Joe might clip Floyd as he clipped Charles in one of the rounds and maybe it hurts Floyd more than it hurt Charles, but he probably survives.
Machen was an excellent fighter. But not as good as Floyd and probably no better than Jimmy Bivins. If you watch Bivins against Doc Williams, after Louis beat Jimmy, you can see the level is similar to Machen rather than better. Harold Johnson beat Machen.
Louis easily beat Bivins who ran from him. Joe came close to knocking Bivins out in the last round but was warned for hitting low.
Didn't help him in the return fight.
who brought up Martin?
he was carrying the ring cards.
Because Louis was a more brilliant fighter who was able to adapt.
First time round he was flummoxed. And I believe most champions would have been.