You're the one who's been told repeatedly by countless posters to leave cause your stupidity has no limits. And Tyson did hit harder than Shavers, as did countless others. Marciano beat greats that were well past their prime and weak small men. Marciano and Shavers are the ones who won against tomato cans. Neither stands a chance, Liston is skilled enough that he destroys them all just through sheer power alone. Liston was very lazy and barely trained properly for a fight, so he was never gonna give it 100% in sparing, especially when it comes to hitting his partners. Show me a link to one of those magazines. And stop embarrasing yourself with Marciano's son, his words don't mean **** since he's clearly biased. Ali never stopped boxers with one punch, you imbecile, it was an accumulation of punches and fatigue that got the job done. Martin beat a gassed out Liston that was almost 50 years old. Liston didn't spread anything, you ******. You have no way of knowing whether he was threatened or not. And nobody said the punch wasn't real, you ****ing IDIOT. What I and countless others claim is that it was never hard enough to keep Liston down. The people who were there watching it live attest to this fact, you IDIOT. This content is protected This content is protected (starts at around 16:00) Moore was 46 years old, you moron. Bonavena was a stiff bum. And Foreman was completely exhausted, anyone could have taken him out by that point. Holyfield beat a shadow of what prime Tyson was. And didn't you read my post, you moron ? I said heart and stamina matter when the boxers are evenly matched, which was the case with that version of Holyfield and Tyson. It's not the case with Liston and Marciano. The Census clearly shows Liston to be at least 2 years older you IMBECILE. Liston's father left the family and nobody ever got to ask him about Sonny's age, you lying sack of ****. And only a complete ****** like you could come up with the idea that Ali spread the rumor about Liston's age. That would only make Ali look worse cause he beat an old man, so why would he ever put himself in that position, you moron ?! Machen was slick compared to the rest of the guys you mentioned. And Liston didn't use anything. As Angelo Dundee himself stated: 'People said Liston put liniment on his gloves to blind Ali, but that was a crock....It was either Monsel's Solution (a coagulant to treat cuts that was legal at the time but is now banned) or else it was the stuff they kept rubbing on Sonny's shoulders between the rounds.' Martin KO'd a gassed out 50 year old Liston. Liston was far more skilled and Marciano wouldn't beat him to anything. All Marciano would do is eat Sonny's jab, which is one of the best ever. And if they ever trade, Liston will destroy him. Marciano barely beat bums like LaStarzza. Foreman will be charged with murder if they ever fought. He'd move Marciano around like a rag doll and break his bones with every punch. Marciano doesn't even make it past round 5. And he gets beat by every top champion after 1960: Liston, Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis, Bowe, the Klitschkos, Fury.
Official evidence points to Sonny being no more than 40 when he died. I’m sorry if you cannot accept that. But so far there isn’t anything factual that shows Sonny could have possibly been any older.
Only stupid man here is you!Only stupid man can say Tyson hit harder than Shavers!Shavers notnonly had more KO ratio but defeates more HOFamers! https://www.boxingnewsonline.net/exclusive-larry-holmes-earnie-shavers-hit-harder-than-mike-tyson/ This content is protected Also Simms stated Shavers hit harder!42 Years old Shavers knocked Simms in 1 round while prime Mike needed two! Shows how stupid you are and that only close to Shavers is Foreman!Two opponents stated Shavers hit harser and he did case closed! Walcott ... 198 and 6 foot tall. ****ell ... 205 and 5'11". Rex Layne ... 200 and over 6'. Louis ... 218 and 6'1". Lee Savold ... 200 and 6'. Jerry Jackson ... 254. Pat Connolly ... 213 and 6'5". Gilley Ferron ... 205. Johnny Shkor ... 225 and 6'5". Bill Hardeman ... 207 Artie Donato ... 202 Eldridge Eatman ... 207 Keene Simmons ... 201 Bill Wilson ... 229 and 6'2". Walcott was the champion, so that was an unavoidable fight, too. Even the critics will agree you must fight the champion unless he steps down or retires, as Rocky did. Walcott wasn't ready to retire. Moore demanded and campaigned for the fight. Rocky had not sought a fight with Archie and was ready to retire. Forced into the fight by Moore, Marciano made sure nobody would doubt he won his final fight. Ezzard Charles was only two years older than Rocky; hardly in another age bracket. Roland LaStarza fought from 1947-58 and Don ****ell from 1946-55, so they were contemporaries of Marciano. So Jimmy Young,Ellis,Bugner,Walcott,Moore,Louis,Charles...are tomato cans but the man Scrap Iron a bum with 35 losses who sluged with Liston is not?Just shut up because you are making yourself very stupid! You imbecile Ali stopped Foreman and Bonavena with only one right hand! Imbecile Ali knocked Banks and Folley also with only one punch! Imbecile Liston was 38 years old and Martin came from1 year layoff and in poor shape because he killed a man and still beat Liston to the punch and he is lhw! Liston spread it according to George Foreman himself imbecile! You moron who only insult,you said punch isn't real!Marciano and Dempsey both stated here that punch is hard enough to keep Liston down imbecile! Imbecile watch this sharp hard right hand which shocked Liston jaw! This content is protected Moore was 46 years old and still beat Durelle and few Liston oponents easier than Liston did amd even at that age did better than Liston! Bonavena was so stiff bum as you imbecile said that he knocked Frazier,beat Chuvalo and same Martin who beat Liston! Foreman was so exhausted but Ali stil did beat him to the punch! Better to say Tyson beat the Shadow of Holyfield!Tyson finished Bruno faster after prison,beat Mathis and few other top blokes! Holyfield was in late 30s,came from 1 year retirement,was washed,had lost almost all his important bouts and had heart issues! Only moron here is you!Heart and stamina are always important also in this case! It is same case with Liston vs Marciano! One was hard puncher,durable,stamina,guts and heart Holyfield/Marciano and other is intimidating guy who quits when he got beaten Tyson/Liston you imbecile! The census showed Liston twice as 20 years old and once as 22 years old IMBECILE! Liston father never left the family ******* Listom left him in 40s when Liston got enough of beating so another your lie I put down!It was Liston who runaway not his father! Ali did said that Liston was 40 years old in all interviews before fight! So lying piece of **** I proved Ali saod that woth actual interview and you lied that Liston father left them but it was his mother and Liston who left father when Liston was 20 years old! Also when they asked is it true that is his date of birth he replied:Are you calling my moma a liar? Machen was not slick and he was just contender not a real champion!He was not even good he was beaten by everyone!Charles and Walcott are HOfamers,beta betfer guys and were much better/slicker than Machen! Another lie by you Liston used something! Heavyweight contender Eddie Machen said he believed that Liston's handlers made deliberate use of illegal medication to temporarily blind Clay. "The same thing happened to me when I fought Liston in 1960," Machen said. "I thought my eyes would burn out of my head, and Liston seemed to know it would happen." He theorized that Liston's handlers would rub medication on his shoulders, which would then be transferred to his opponent's forehead during clinches and drip into the eyes. "Clay did the worst thing when he started screaming and let Liston know it had worked," Machen said. "Clay panicked. I didn't do that. I'm more of a seasoned pro, and I hid it from Liston." Pollino later confessed to reporter Jack McKinney that Liston ordered him to rub an astringent compound on his gloves before the fourth round. Pollino complied, and Liston shoved his gloves into Clay's face in the fourth. Clay managed to survive the fifth round and by the sixth, his eyes had cleared and he resumed control of the fight. Martin KOed 38 years old Liston who was in top 5! Maetin used to beat Sonny in early 60s sparing also! And it was Martin who was in bad shape since he killed a man and didn't train fro one year!
Liston isn't more skilled than Marciano!He had slow feets and poor defense which would cost him very much against Marciano! Marciano would beat him to the punch! Jab?Marciano could even escape Louis better and faster jab and Liston jab is slow and Marciano would miss it very easy! https://www.google.com/amp/s/gfycat...erfly-rocky-marciano-knocks-out-joe-louis-gif Not even Louis could catch him with faster jab and how would slow Liston do that? Marciano would not eat sonny jab but Sonny would eat that right because he sucked against right which Marshall/Ali/Martin proved! If they trade Marciano would kill him!LaStarza?LaStarza's record was 37-0, with 19 KOs, and Marciano's was 25-0, with 23 KOs. LaStarza was 22 and Rocky was 26.LaStarza was top bloke! Liston struggled woth bum Scrap Iron Johnson with a record of 22-27-5. Who had more losees that wins!Lyle knocked Johnson in 3 rounds Foreman in 5! And about Marciano defense: Joe Louis, in the dressing room after his fight with Rocky:"Marciano is a good puncher and he's hard to hit. He has a funny style." Angello Dundee (Ali's trainer)"Rocky was a very deceiving guy. He was not that easy to hit." Jersey Joe Walcott and Archie Moore both said Marciano had proved to be much harder to hit than they had expected. And Ali, during the filming of the "computer fight" told Angello Dundee that he was surprised at how hard it was to land his jab on Marciano. Nope he wouldn't!Frazier is not Marciano and Marciano is better than Lyle!It would be a slugfest and Marciano could KO Forrman like Lyle did! Who cares about your top 5!Marciano was in everyone top 5 Ali,Foreman,Tyson,Fury...everyone has Marciano in top 5! He wpuld beat anyone after 1960 except Foreman and maybe Lennox! He would beat Liston,Ali(like Frazier due to his workrate),Holmes(He would finished where Shavers started due to his better chin,workratio...and Knocked Hplmes in round 10),Bowe???Marciano would beat him like Holyfield by UD or late TKO!Bpwe striggled against Golotha and ducled Lennox and Marciano would kill him!He would kill both Klithckos and Furys because they gassed bad late and even Don Turner said that!
I think I understood more of what Quick Tillis said in that video than the combined output of @SerbianLoudmouth on this board.
You know, I gotta say, Marciano is more skilled than Liston, imo. Liston is just far more orthodox. It's like that saying. You judge a goldfish by not knowin hisself how to fly, you gonna think he dumb as a rock but really he just smart at bein a goldfish, not a bird and that's normal.
I think if James Tillis and James Toney had an argument it would be easier to keep up with than any heated discussion Serbian has had.
What about the Census ?! That shows him to be at least 2 years older. And the coroner who did the autopsy on Liston's body said he was around 50 years old. Plus all those that were close to him have stated he was a lot older than his official age.
I realize this is coming out of nowhere, but tonight I couldn't help but watch Liston's jab in awe. He really did have a phenomenal left. I know I might catch hell for this, but I don't care how big, etc the heavies of today are, they'd all have extreme trouble with that jab. Sonny seemed to surprise a lot of fighters with how long he could extend it...it wasn't just the reach, he had the step-in down to a science. Do I think Louis' was better or worse? I think I can safely say Liston's was more awe-inspring, heavy, with a great reach. But Louis too had a great jab, I'd rank those two with Holmes, Ali, and Foreman (when he used it) as the best with that punch in the heavies. Bowe had a really good one, too.
There is no acceptable evidence that Charles Sonny Liston was over 40 years old in 1969. The latest census points to him being born no earlier than 1930. Making him 38 or 39 at the oldest in 1969. If you go to the National Archives in Washington, DC and pull up the microfilm for Forrest City, Arkansas you will find Tobin Liston’s 1930 census family card. But Charles L. Liston is not on it. His mother, Helen, is listed, as are his sisters Clytee, Annie and Alcora, and his brothers J.T., Leo and Curtis, who is the youngest at six months. This means that Liston could not have been born before late 1930 and that the oldest he could have been when he fought Ali the first time was 33-years-old. The 1940 U.S. Census reports have been released. Tobin Liston and his family come into view on a rented farm in backwater Smith Township on April 23rd of that year. They moved there from backwater Johnson Township sometime between 1930 and 1934. Tobin was sixty-seven and working on the farm sixty hours a week despite his advanced age. The ages of the children: Leo (“17”), Annie (“15”) and Alcora (“13,” called “Cabbie”), and there, between eleven-year-old Curtis and two-year-old Wesley, “Charles L” appears on record for the first time. His age is given as “10” which means that 1930 is the likeliest year of his birth.
