Good post. Louis was certainly quicker of hand and put his punches together better than Liston or anyone for that matter. The Brown Bomber was more accurate especially with his power shots. IDK who punches harder as they both can knock your brains loose. Joe Louis had the superior right hand. As you said Liston's was more of a clubbing type of punch where Joe had more snap and speed to it. Counter punching would favor Louis as well. Liston may of had brute strength over Joe but in a head to head matchup I like Louis's advantages to carry the day. It's a tough hill to climb for Liston.
You are again moving the goal posts. You said Liston was "shorter on everything" which I took to mean smaller in everything. Because saying that Liston did nothing better than Louis is not objective. Giving Louis the edge in chin is just laughable. It's dishonest considering Max wasn't anywhere near 100% and had severe injuries in BOTH hands which you neglected to mention. Baer had an onslaught that lasted about 6 or so seconds, other than that he didn't land much. And even when he did, HIS SIGNATURE RIGHT HAND WAS BROKEN. Do you think he could have put nearly enough power as he usually did? And Joe Louis fought a much better array of elite fighters didn’t he? It’s well documented that Sonny beat a swath of elite fighters...but they do not compare in number to them champions and elite fighters Joe Louis fought in total. It is likely Sonny might have been dropped more times if he fought as many as Louis had. [/QUOTE] Let's assess who had the better chin: Liston fought 14 or so more times than Louis and was only dropped twice once when he was old and literally had the flu in his penultimate fight and once against Ali, in which likely wasn't real. Louis on the other hand off the top of my head was dropped 9X AT LEAST. Including one by a arthritic in his 30s who hadn't fought in 2 years. Hmmmm this is a tough one. Also aren't you the one who keeps going on about "majority opinions"? Surely you recognize Louis having a better chin isn't one? If you're not sure, put up a poll. But if you are going only for outright ramrod power then there is a case for Sonny. But there is more to a jab than simply this. I was saying Louis’s jab was better whilst acknowledging Liston had a great jab too. [/QUOTE[ Both have great jabs but Liston's was better, he could use it offensively, and defensively. One of the very few fighters who could do this. [QUOTE[ I have not said anything shameful or dishonest at all. It might surprise you that it is not shameful or dishonest to hear an opposing view or a case presented that contradicts what you might believe. It doesn’t make it a lie just because you don’t want to hear it. [/QUOTE] You are the most intentionally misleading, disingenuous, dishonest poster on the boards. Bar none. Yes it is on film, and any objective fan can clearly see that Conn was bothering Louis, who was unable to adapt to Conn's style. It was only after Conn hurt Louis in the 12th, he grew more confident and went for a knockout, abandoning the strategy he used for the last 12 rounds. "He was fighting Louis at his own game. Conn's followers began yelling for him to start the encircling movement he had used to good advantage early. With what seemed to be a safe lead, they wanted him to stay out of Louis's reach. But Conn who is Irish and loves to fight, eletced to bang away." So no, it's not true that he lost because he'd "shot his load". Made up bull****. Even if so, that just proves my argument even more, if Louis could only beat Conn because he tired, not because of any alterations to his game plan. It was also the reason he lost to Schmeling. He had a tendency to drop his left hand after throwing the jab, leaving him open for a counter. Schmeling took advantage of this, much to the dismay of a helpless Louis. " "As the fight progressed, stunned fans and critics alike watched Schmeling continue to use this style effectively, and Louis apparently had no idea how to solve the puzzle." " More and more, Joe looked to be not so much stalking his opponent as helplessly following him about the ring." "The German rarely called on his left. He merely waded in throwing that whistling right, and he almost never missed." "He had no defense of any sort" "He missed left and right hand punches by two feet. He missed uppercuts by a margin just as wide." In your honest opinion (if even possible) Do you think Schmeling would've given Liston nearly as hard a time as he did Louis let alone beat him? Then again, you also think Liston would've struggled with Applegate and Lowry just as much as Marciano did on the sole basis that you can't fathom anybody having a much easier time with old men, journeymen, and club fighters than your hero did, so I don't really care for your opinion. Forget I asked.
That is your misunderstanding then isn’t it? I have backed up why I said that was. Joe Louis was probably the best heavyweight of all time. Sonny was great but a notch bellow this. No I honestly don’t think Liston had a better chin than Joe Louis. Louis did suffer more flash knockdowns but that is more a reflection on quality of opposition. He fought more experienced Tricky counterpunchers. Officially Sonny and Louis were knocked out the same number of times. Schmeling and Marciano being demonstrably more famous for knocking people out than Muhammad Ali and Leotis Martin. not at all. I simply put forward my ideas in response to direct questions Backing them up with legitimate facts and knowledgeable opinions. It doesn’t become dishonest just because you don’t agree with it or have no answer to it. This is a gross misinterpretation. In the 13th Louis hurt Conn first, he staggered him, forcing Conn to fire back using up all he had. It’s on the film.
Conn came out for the 13th rd determined to knock Louis out its a matter of record, he told his corner what he was going to do, and he told the press after the fight.
He did. But watch the fight. Louis clobbered him first and conn came firing back on instinct. The film never shows Billy come flying out at the start of the 13th. Louis hurt him first. The attack from Billy came after Louis knocked Conns head up with an uppercut.
I just had to watch that fight again. At the end all I could think of was the announcer during the FOTC saying "Joe is murder...just murder!"
That’s right! Conn kept fighting back until he couldn’t fight back no more. Louis was teeing off on him at the end. What a brave guy Conn was.
How about that flurry Conn erupted with before the knockout? He really did put everything he had into those punches. Joe took them like an iron statue and clobbered him.
This is the post where Choklab says he names all the fighters who beat Marciano..... Read it people please and digest it, then tell me where he openly admits one single name who he thinks would outright beat Rocky. He doesn't, he cannot bring himself to do it, he merely states that Marciano should be 50 / 50 with most champions. Now he is telling people to go back and read his post where he names those who would beat Rocky. He then wonders why people see him for what he is. Come on the Choklab...... what's it to be? You personally name the fighters that you think beat him....not those that you think beat the guys that he beat.... Squirm your way out of this......
