Expert opinions on Marciano VS Liston

Hm. Good question. The closer it looks to old timey rules, the more it shifts in Jeffries's favor.

Does Spinks have the option to train for the longer distance, or are we pulling him from the Holmes fight as-is?

For what it's worth, I'd still go for Spinks. He has a better chance of slowing his pace than Jeffries has of learning almost a century of boxing technical development in the ring.

 

Both were awesome fighters but I favor Liston here. He is just too big. Of course, Marciano can also defeat big boxers. But we're comparing elite boxers (and elite punchers) and not just contenders or journeymen. Especially between top boxers, nuances can be decisive.

Let's compare Liston to Marciano and Marciano to Ray Robinson/Carlos Monzon.

Robinson and Monzon belong to the greatest P4P boxers ever.
But if you would start a thread with the topic: Marciano vs Robinson or Marciano vs. Monzon many would say that this is unfair. There is a reason for weight classes. Robinson may beat Joey Maxim under different circumstances but Marciano is just a bit too much for him. Nobody would expect a win for Carlos Monzon in a fantasy bout against LHW champion Bob Foster...

Ok now the comparison.

Some typical weights:
Sonny Liston (213 Ibs vs. Patterson I), Rocky Marciano (185 Ibs vs. LaStarza II), Carlos Monzon (159.75 Ibs and 159.5 Ibs vs. Benvenuti) and Ray Robinson (157,5 Ibs vs. Maxim and 157,25 Ibs vs. Rocky Graziano before)
Since Robinson's MW weight has often fluctuated a bit, I'll generously round up Robinson's and Monzon's weight to 160 lbs.

Difference between Liston and Marciano = 28 Ibs (relative difference: 13.15%)
Difference between Marciano and Robinson/Monzon = 25ibs (relative difference: 13.51%)
The weight difference between Liston and Marciano is comparable to Marciano vs. Robinson/Monzon.

But Robinson (5′ 11″ and 72½″ reach) and Monzon (5′ 11½″ and 76″) were at least as tall as Rocky Marciano and had better reachs. Liston, on the other hand, was taller than Marciano and had enormous reach advantages.

I don't claim that this is the ultimate proof. One can surely produce counterexamples. Rocky was a great champion and everything is possible...
But anyway, for me it's enough to favor Liston.

 

crazy seeing these threads bumped over and over again.

let me stop you there. On this occasion I am saying it is a shame Liston did not seek competitive fights after his championship days to show us how he would fare in more give and take fights. What isn’t true about this? Are you saying he did seek these fights? Are you saying he had those kinds of fights after his championship days?

If you accuse me of ignoring tougher fights Liston had on the way up against Cleveland Williams I will accuse you of repeating things you know are not true. Because that was not what I was talking about.

In truth Sonny’s impressive run through guys like Harris and even Patterson was marvellous. But, in my opinion, we need to see more.

 

Debut weight to debut weight the difference between Rocky and Sonny was just 8lb.

You can’t say that about Robinson and Rocky. Robinson weighed 134lb in his first pro fight and Rocky was 192lb in his first pro fight.

 

What's nonsense is ignoring all the damage Rocky did for 13 rounds and thinking it did nothing to contribute to Walcott's knockout. Walcott was not fresh as a daisy in the 13th.

 

RockyJim does the same thing claiming shavers had no KOs past the 7th and repeats multiple times a year straight up ignoring anyone who corrects him. We even provide footage and somehow he manages to do it again.

Perhaps it's time to upgrade the captcha and bot tests for this site?

 

Ok but how about taking a 40 year old Spinks with a very long career and multiple KO losses and throwing him in there with Jefferies for 30 rounds...?

 

That was actually one half decent result I was very impressed with that Sonny had after his championship days.

But it was just one fight. Where are the others? Isn’t it a shame there wasn’t more match ups like that? That’s all I am saying.

where were the fights with Terrel, Jones, Chuvalo or Ellis? Sonny was busy. It’s not like he wasn’t fighting.

 

I don't think Spinks was known for aging well, so I suspect Jeffries would win.

 

To be fair Liston couldn’t get a good fight and almost rightfully so after the Ali 2 affair. He was a high risk no reward at that point. High risk because he could kill u in the ring and no reward because everyone will think it’s fixed or he’s to old. Frazier’s team wanted nothing to do with Liston I’m sure.

 

No I was fully prepared to defend that. I am fully aware about Henry Clark and you can search the many times I have said how impressed I was with it.

It was not a lie! Sonny did not take any competitive fights after his championship days. Henry was decent, but he was not expected to be be or actually was that competitive against Sonny. Guys like Terrel would have been competitive. Bonavena, Ellis, Spencer, Quarry.

I know it has been documented, I don’t deny it, do not pretend that I do. I have contributed many times myself upon Sonny being black balled. It doesn’t change the fact it is a shame we did not see him in more competitive matchups after his first defeats at world level. There is no lie here.