Expert opinions on Marciano VS Liston

Okay. Point taken. But I was mostly responding to claims, by way of explanation, that I had lied about something. I did not lie.

 

But I think debut weight doesn't matter.

Boxers develop differently and start as pro boxers at different ages...

Okay Rocky was pretty heavy against Lee Epperson with 192 Ibs. It was his second heaviest weight after Keene Simmons. But was it his best fight weight? He was even 14.5 lbs heavier than Evander Holyfield in his first pro fight. Okay Holyfield arguably used PEDs later on. But there is always a "but".
BTW., Max Schmeling's debut weight was 169¾ Ibs and Henry Maske's 177 Ibs. Jimmy Ellis' debut weight was only 157¼ pounds. Okay, he was just 21 but SRR was just 19. Willie Pastrano started as a featherweight... Mike Tyson was arguably built like a grown man at age 13.
But anyway, different fighters, different physiques, different ages, different natures, different developments, different circumstances and so on and so forth. It's just a mass of factors and everything becomes arbitrary.

Thus, I'm just comparing prime Liston vs. prime Marciano and prime Marciano vs. prime Robinson (as a MW not WW)/prime Monzon ROUGHLY. You can also take Marvin Hagler. I'm not comparing pro debuts. But of course, you are entitled to your opinion. You can see things differently or judge them differently.

 

Answer me this. Was Clark competitive with Sonny?

Your deliberately taking my definition of “championship level fights” as only fights for a championship. a championship level fighter, as you know, is simply an elite level contender.

Whilst being a contender, Clark was outside of championship level. He was not competitive at championship level…the level recent Ex champions are still at.

 

Very reasonably explained.

 

Clark was a ranked fighter. Liston sought him out and fought him. So it is incorrect to say Liston never sought out competitive fights. The opponent does not need to be a champion for it to be considered a potentially competitive opponent, otherwise the only competitive fights on a resume are one where the fighter wins his title and that is an absurd position to take. The result is irrelevant, it doesn't matter that Liston battered him.

He said you were lying because everyone on this board knows you're well aware that Clark was a ranked able bodied fighter and made the false claim about Liston anyways.

 

I mean he could be literally crazy or extremely forgetful. He did say he boxed at one point. I'll just let that marinate for a minute.

Now, for your 2nd paragraph describing the absolutely infuriating cycle where you go over the same thing you thought you resolved 2 months ago. Swag, John, and several others have said almost word for word the same thing. I myself have gone through that and there's really only 2 possibilities: trolling or actually crazy. His defense mechanism is to say we're just mad because we "disagree" with his "opinion" that is factually incorrect.

I imagine he is stuck in some time loop repeating the same things over and over like the Justice league episode where they defeated Chronos by sticking him in the same argument with his wife over and over but didn't realize it.

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3:00 mark if you want to skip ahead.

 

49 pages. It's a sign.

 

The most astute analysis on this dream match-up....

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I don't think Walcott quit - he was seriously hurt and stiff legged when he got up.

 

There`s no way Marciano could finish Liston with one shot despite Ali stopping Liston in their rematch, Liston was not out cold like Walcott was and Liston hit harder than Marciano.