Expert opinions on Marciano VS Liston

No, Baker was unranked thanks to recent losses to Clarence Henry and Bob Satterfield.

 

'58 Liston would of busted Marciano up something terrible, even with Rockys dirty tactics.

 

Great chin, unlimited stamina, bone crushing overhand right, and power that was honed through countless hours on a 300 pound heavybag wouldn't.

 

You didn't say he was a "top" heavyweight, you said he was a "great" one.

 

Great chin? Two decent ,but not great punching heavies dropped him .he never faced a big modern heavyweight over 200lbs only a pension plan Louis whose right hand had left him. Marciano didn't this any harder than Liston,I doubt he hit as hard. Certainly Lastarza and C*ckell would not have gone 11rds and 9rds with a prime Sonny!
Unlimited stamina? He was fighting past prime men in their late 30's and one was in front after 13rds! Does that mean they all had unlimited stamina too?
"Bonecrushing", more hyperbole!

 

Were they little white swarmers that cut easy though

 

When you make a response worth replying to, I will. Why mention colour?

 

Do you think anybody around in 1958 would think that Sonny would “busted up Marciano something terrible” though? Do you realise who Sonny was fighting in 1958?

At the start of 1958 Sonny had just one win to his name since 1955. Even so Sonny fought 8 times that year against nobody special and went 8 whole rounds with some guy called Ernie Cab and 20 rounds over two fights with Bert Whithurst (2-4 in his last 6) a sparring partner of Ingo Johansson who Archie Moore knocked out.

Here is the report of the Cab fight.

"Charles (Sonny) Liston, 9th ranked heavyweight contender from Philadelphia, scored an eighth round technical knockout over surprisingly stubborn Ernie Cab of Brooklyn Tuesday night. Firing his best shots at Cab early in the scheduled 10 round fight with no apparent success, Liston resorted to a cutting left jab. He sliced Cab's left eye and the bridge of his nose in the second and kept battering away at the bloody target until the commission doctor ordered a halt at the end of the seventh." - Associated Press

Why is Sonny going bust up Rocky “something terrible” on that form when he can’t improve on one of Archie Moore’s results?

 

When he was aged 29 and 32. Marciano was up both times before the ref even started the count. He wasn't ageless.

Walcott was more than a decent punching heavyweight he was a very good punching heavyweight. He put Louis on the canvas 3x and knocked Charles clean out. Walcott also hit harder and was trickier than Joe Louis although not as effective.

Why does he have to fight a big modern heavyweight over 200 lbs? Fighting good quality fighters is better than fighting big fighters. If Jeffries fought 280 lb nobodies instead of who he did would you rate him higher because they were modern sized heavyweights?

I'm not comparing Liston and Marciano's power. Marciano had a tremendous overhand right. Do you disagree? Marciano developed his punching power consistently on a 300 lb bag. Do you disagree?

Lastarza could have definitely taken Liston the distance. Eddie Machen did it and Lastarza was better than Machen.

How come you don't criticize Liston's opposition as much as you do Marciano's?

 

Your reply makes as much sense as my pointing out that 177lbs Ted Lowry went the distance with Marciano at the same stage of development in Rocky's career and many think that after having Marciano in some trouble
early on, that Lowry deserved the verdict.Therefore Marciano being hurt by light heavyweight non puncher Lowry means that Rocky is going to get brutalized by Sonny inside a round!"

"The crowd of 3,696 booed the decision and some wondered if Lowry had thrown the fight. "There were some questions as to whether Lowry, who had come close to knocking out Marciano in the second, third and fourth rounds, deliberately bogged down in his attack after the fourth stanza," Thomas wrote. "Lowry stopped using his uppercut after the fourth. He went into a shell and only occasionally landed power shots. He seemed to be carrying Marciano."

 

Marciano was in danger of being kod in three separate rounds by non puncher 177lbs Ted Lowry.Marciano was born with natural power as was Liston.Prime Liston had a better chin that Marciano, he took the punches of DeJohn and Williams without going down.Louis by his own statement was worn down, he was an old fighter his punch resistance was gone.Charles never had the greatest of chins again he was worn down by a steady barrage of punches.Walcott did not hit harder than a prime Louis he was a good puncher but not in Liston or Williams class . Lastarza was never anywhere as good as Machen he was a very carefully protected and managed fighter.He really did not deserve the title short he received he had recently been dropped and beaten by lhvy journeymen Rocky Jones . The men he avoided are legion.
Here are just some of the guys he was steered clear of.
Maxim
Bivins
Agramonte
Oma
Williams
Sys
Neuhaus
Baker
Henry
Walcott
Charles
Wallace
Satterfield
Brion
Baksi
Dunlop
Gardner
Valentino
Gomez
Savold

 

very good Analysis. i too believe that this is listons fight to lose. the ony x-factor here is that liston was a bully. and like bullies.......he didn´t like getting bullied. but that is what marciano would do. marciano was a dirty mauling bulldoser who threw everything but the kitchen sink at you.
still, liston would have too much. his jab, power, size and athletic ability would be too much imo. but there is a tiny Little bit of doubt in my mind. what would happen is marciano would break listons nose with an elbow. or continually low blow him (without the ref doing anything about it). that leaves a tiny possibility for liston to quit. i know it´s tiny. but it´s there.

 

Have you actually seen the Lowry fight? That's what I thought. You're going off of probably exaggerated accounts of the fight that involved an inexperienced pre-prime Marciano against a very experienced veteran.

I'm certain that Marciano could take the punches of DeJohn and Williams without going down. They were contenders at best. Not champion material. George Chuvalo level fighters. If you watch the Walcott and Moore knockdowns you will see they are slick counterpunches that knocked Marciano down, not telegraphed power punches intended to slug it out. Williams and Dejohn were sluggers. Not students of the finer aspects of boxing. Didn't really have a chance against Liston.

Charles had a great chin what are you talking about? Before he got knocked out by Walcott he was 71-5 with only 1 stoppage loss because of a hip injury.

There are accounts of common opponents that say Walcott did hit harder than Louis so yes he did.

Machen couldn't even beat any of the good fighters of his own era. If Lastarza fought half of the guys on that list you would still say he had a weak resume lets not play games here.

 

So any negative comments about Marciano are exaggerated but the positive ones are not? Is that about the gist of it? I believe that DeJohn and Williams both hit harder thanWalcott and Moore ,the fact that they may not have been as good as fighters detracts not a jot from their power. Charles didn't have a great chin Marshall had him up and down like a yo yo .So did Bivins.
Marciano had 20 fights under his belt when he faced journeymen 31%ko Lowry and was in danger of being kod .Its that simple.
I'm not playing games I'm presenting you with facts that you choose not to accept because they interfere with your blatant agenda.

Lastarza was a protected fighter it's common knowledge, he beat a tenderized Layne whom Marciano had ruined thats it ! He lost to average Bucceroni and trial horse Jones
If you want to state that Walcott hit harder than Joe Louis then I'm wasting my time,so bye.

 

Rocky would have to press the fight, and Sonny loved guys who he did not have to cut off the ring and chase. So on styles, you have to assume Liston would have what he wants.

Sonny's chin to me is a little untested, and being out cold for a minute admittedly past his prime at the hands of Leotis Martin, and quitting ( also rocked ) when the going got tough vs. Ali makes you wonder what would happen if he couldn't get Rocky out of there early. Sonny tended to cut and swell up, best shown vs. Cleveland Williams, who couldn't stand to toe with him.

My best guess is Liston via TKO in 7 rounds with Marciano giving a gutsy effort. Sonny's weaponry, range, and superior firepower I think would prove to be the difference maker, but if the tides happen to turn on Liston, the fight could be won by Rocky.