Explain how beating Pavlik would do more for Calzaghe than a win over Dawson

I know a lot of people want Calzaghe to fight Pavlik next. And I have no problems with anybody who is on that boat. But a lot of people say that a Calzaghe win over Pavlik would cement his legacy, even more so than beating Chad Dawson.

But as a guy who is a bigger fan of Pavlik than Dawson, I fail to see where they're coming from. Yes, Pavlik is a bigger name and the casual boxing fan knows who he is. However, big names don't always indicate the most meaningful fights.

So please do me a favor and explain yourselves. Just don't quite understand it.

Pavlik isn't proven at super middleweight, let alone light heavyweight. If the second Taylor fight was any indication, he loses a bit of speed, snap, and effectiveness at the higher weight classes. And factor in the tremendous stylistic advantage Calzaghe would hold.

Pavlik quitessential 'what you see is what you get' fighter. Straight-up, little variation in his movement, basically comes forward behind a strong, active left jab. He's a huge physical specimin and proven to be highly effective against the guys he's faced (Miranda and Taylor). But that's not the way to beat Calzaghe because Joe can adapt to just about any style out there. Calzaghe's usage of angles, his in and out movement, handspeed, and footspeed spells trouble for the slower Pavlik. Really an easy fight to call.

Now take Chad Dawson, who has proven himself against top opposition at light heavyweight: Glen Johnson and Tomasz Adamek, both of whom would have beaten Pavlik.

Dawson's shown tools necessary to beat the current Joe Calzaghe. Speed, combination punching, quality foot work, a more unpredictable offense than Kessler or Pavlik for that matter, and excellent timing. He could match Calzaghe from the outside and would probably have an advantage. Calzaghe's advantages would be at a closer range, where he could very well make the fight because of his relentless swarming attack. To me, this is a 50/50 fight where both guys could win. Calzaghe's on the decline, Dawson is still young and can learn a lot more in this game.

This all points to one thing: Calzaghe-Dawson must be made after Calzaghe-Jones. Forget Kelly Pavlik. He can make a legacy for himself at 160 (where I'd take him over everybody), but he has absolutely no business fighting for the light heavyweight championship. A win for Calzaghe equals true all time great status and nobody could realistically say otherwise. A win for Dawson would be the coming out party for a future superstar in the sport.

 

I actually think Pavlik stands a better chance of beating him.

 

Really? As much as I like Kelly, I don't see it. Not to high on his ability at 168 and especially 175, although I think very highly of him at middleweight.

 

I been saying and still say that Dawson beats Calzaghe.

 

Here is the thing:

1) If the Bhop fight proved anything, it's that Calzaghe is no Light Heavy. He got dropped by the very first right hand Hopkins landed, and while BHOP had underrated power, he is no huge puncher. He looked slow on his feet, and had absolutely zero power. None!

2) Calzaghe will move down to 168. Pavlik could do 168, as his frame is huge. Joe is natural at the weight.

3) Kelly Pavlik won his last two fights convincingly, while Dawson got his ass kicked by old man Johnson. Dawson needs to rematch Johnson to get any of his lost credibility, while Pavlik is riding high.

 

Of course Calzaghe-Dawson is by far the best legacy fight for Joe. Calzaghe-Pavlik is a mismatch and would only help him get respect from fans that think Pavlik is an elite fighter.

Before the Hopkins fight, I thought Joe would stop Dawson, but now I'm not too sure. I would still favor Calzaghe, but I wouldn't be very confident in him because everything about him was off at 175 during the Hopkins fight and who knows if that was one bad night or a sign of what he is like at 175 at this point of his career.

I hope Joe fights Dawson and beats him, then destroys Pavlik afterwards just to close his career with an easy fight that would get him extra respect.

But unfortunately right now, Dawson is busy with the Diaconu mandatory and Pavlik is tied up also. The Roy Jones fight is completely useless, but if it keeps Calzaghe busy and helps him become more comfortable at 175 it makes sense. Brooklyn, if Jones beat Calzaghe right now by KO (a miracle KO win :nut), then retired, where would you rank him all time?

 

My sentiments exactly.

I think it's a bit of both. Calzaghe's declining now, it's plain as day. But Hopkins' style will always make it tough to look good. He's basically a one-handed spoiler at this point. Looks to take away his opponents best weapon, frusturate them, but doesn't do enough offensively to win clearly.

If he fought Dawson in 2009, I think he will have faded a little more, will have lost speed and reflexes. Dawson will still be in his physical peak. I would pick Calzaghe now, by decision because of his pressure. But in a year or so, I'd probably be forced to reconsider.

Yup, doesn't look like Dawson/Calzaghe will come off this year. Mainly because Calzaghe's fighting Jones in November.

Dawson TKO 7 Diaconu
Pavlik TKO 6 Lockett
Pavlik KO 5 Rubio
Calzaghe UD Jones

If Jones somehow managed to win...wow. That would put him around my top 10, maybe just a little bit outside at 11 or 12. I'd have to reassess my rankings though and take into consideration the way Jones beat Calzaghe.

 

All valid points.

My feeling is that Pavlik plays right into Calzaghe's hands because of his disadvantages in handspeed, footspeed, and defense.

 

honestly I don't know much about Dawson I've only seen like one of his fights. I guess I'd rather see Calzaghe vs Pavlik because Pavlik is more known and his style is crowd friendly. Other than that I have no other reason, As far as legacy is concerned I wouldn't give anymore credit to calzaghe if he beat one guy and not the other.

 

See, I have no problem with that. Can't argue with somebody's personal preference in what fights they'd rather see.

I'd rather see Cotto/Hatton than Cotto/Quintana 2 even though Quintana is a better fighter and would still mean more to me than beating Hatton would.

 

This is another reason why I'd love to see Calzaghe fight Pavlik, I'd love to see him put on another "jeff lacy" performance and absolutely Ace Pavlik by schooling him everyround. Except hes playing against a guy in Pavlik IMO has way more KO ability than Lacy. Also a difference in size, its more intriguing and so I'd love to see if Calzaghe can put on another show like he did with Lacy.

 

That is pretty much the closest comparison that can be made presently when thinking about another senario like this haha

 

You're sadistic

Seriously though, those type of masterclasses never get old.

 

lol it sucks because I love Pavlik the way I love Ricky Hatton.

But that doesn't mean I wouldn't want to see Calzaghe and Cotto beat the **** boxing 101 style out of Pavlik and Hatton, respectively...


:rofl You feeling me? haha

 

Yeah, I've watched PBF-Gatti 15+ times and Gatti-Ward about 3 times.

Calzaghe-Pavlik wouldn't be a masterclass like Lacy though, because Pavlik would probably get blown out in the first half of the fight.