Explanation of WHY Marquez fans believe Marquez was robbed.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by caliboxingfan, Dec 7, 2012.


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  1. caliboxingfan

    caliboxingfan Member Full Member

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    Nov 11, 2011
    There is more than one type of robbery. We all know the Williams-Lara type robberies. If a fight is close it does not mean it is not a robbery. When looking back at a fights we tend to say: "it was close it could have gone either way". This thinking is wrong because we are looking at a fight as a WHOLE. Fights are not scored as a WHOLE, they are scored by rounds.

    So, for arguments sake, if fighter A dominates 7 rounds, while fighter B dominates 5 the fight could be called a close fight but fighter A clearly won the fight and if fighter B was chosen the winner it would be a robbery. he was robbed of 2 rounds that in turn robbed him of the fight.

    Now you may say my example is not typical. Ok, but the Pacquiao-Marquez fights have both fighters having rounds that they
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    won. There are also
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    rounds, which is what really can go either way, fine.

    So Marquez got credit for all his
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    or
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    rounds. (or
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    )
    Pacquiao got credit for all his dominating rounds. (if he didnt provide proof)
    all
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    went either way. ( lets say they did, for the sake of argument, but most likely pacquiao got the benefit of the doubt.)

    So to prove robbery one must prove that Marquez did not get credit for a certain amount of
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    or
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    rounds(not to mention close rounds he didnt get either) in each fight to swing the fight in his favor.

    so according to the scoring he would need:

    Fight one- Scores
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    ONE round from the 113-113 scorecard PROOF=
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    fight two- Scores
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    ONE round from the 114-113 scorecard PROOF=
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    (absolutely disgusting that Marquez didnt get this round)

    fight three-
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    TWO rounds from 115-113 scorecard, ONE from 114-114 (same rounds can apply to both)
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    all 3 fights are available on youtube.
     
    caliboxingfan, Dec 7, 2012
    caliboxingfan, Dec 7, 2012
    #1
  2. Charlie

    Charlie Well-Known Member Full Member

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    The first two fights where close decisions that could have gone either way (I had Marquez winning by 1 point in both fights)

    The third fight was a clear Marquez win, and the scorecard Glenn Trowbridge spewed out was a ****ing joke, that's undeniable, hence the fourth fight in the trilogy.
     
    Charlie, Dec 7, 2012
    Charlie, Dec 7, 2012
    #2
  3. sbbigmike

    sbbigmike Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This......................


    I had it 9-3 in the last match, if you gave Pacquaio more than 4 rounds it's clear that you are biased and dont know what boxing is
     
    sbbigmike, Dec 7, 2012
    sbbigmike, Dec 7, 2012
    #3
  4. Porgeous Porge

    Porgeous Porge Well-Known Member Full Member

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    May 22, 2012
    I like your logic here

    i personally had Pac win the first fight but only due to the knockdowns he lost more rounds

    fight 2 i had Marquez by 2 points

    Fight 3 i had it 8 to 4 but had it sealed after 9
     
    Porgeous Porge, Dec 7, 2012
    Porgeous Porge, Dec 7, 2012
    #4
  5. purephase

    purephase Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Jan 14, 2011
    This is a very good point that I wish more people realized. While the word "robbery" gets thrown around too much, I don't think people who label fights like Alexander-Matthysse and Cloud-Campillo that way are wrong for precisely the reason you mentioned.
     
    purephase, Dec 7, 2012
    purephase, Dec 7, 2012
    #5
  6. Slothrop

    Slothrop Boxing Junkie banned

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    The third fight was close. Anyone calling it a robbery is deluded.


    • Blake Dreisbach, BleacherReport.com: 116-112 Marquez
    • Gabriel Montoya, MaxBoxing.com: 116-112 Marquez
    • Ron Borges, The Sweet Science/Boston Herald/Ring Magazine: 117-112 Marquez
    • Tim Smith, New York Daily News: 116-112 Marquez
    • Lem Satterfield, Ring Magazine: 117-111 Marquez
    • Mark Lyons, 8CountNews.com: 116-112 Marquez
    • Michael Marley, The Examiner: 115-113 Marquez
    • Mike Coppinger, RingTV.com: 115-113 Marquez
    • Al Bernstein: 115-113 Marquez
    • Wayne McCullough: 115-113 Marquez
    • Ryan Maquinana, ***********.com: 116-113 Marquez
    • Matt Hamilton, EsNews.com: 116-115 Marquez
    • Ed Graney, Las Vegas Review-Journal: 115-113 Marquez
    • Bob Sheridan: 115-114 Marquez
    • John Katsilometes, Las Vegas Sun: 115-114 Marquez
    • Bart Barry, 15Rounds.com: 117-113 Marquez
    • Bill Dwyer, Los Angeles Times: 115-113 Marquez
    • Pedro Fernandez, RingTalk.com: 116-113 Marquez
    • Chris Williams, BoxingNews24.com: 117-111 Marquez
    • Eric Raskin, TheSweetScience.com: 116-112 Marquez
    • Lyle Fitzsimmons, The Sports Network: 116-112 Marquez
    • Steve Bunce, BBC: 117-111 Marquez
    • Matt Lynch, BoxingToday: 116-112 Marquez
    • Chuck Giampa, Retired Boxing Judge: 116-112 Marquez
    • Glyn Leach, Boxing Monthly: 115-113 Marquez
    • Briggs Seekins, BleacherReport.com: 115-113 Marquez
    • Oly Goldstein, BadLeftHook.com: 116-112 Marquez
    • Johnny Benz, DogHouseBoxing.com: 118-111 Marquez
    • Lance Pugmire, Los Angeles Times: 115-113 Marquez
    • George Willis, New York Post: 115-113 Marquez
    • Rich Thomas, ProBoxing-Fans.com: 116-112 Marquez
    • Raj Parmar, 3MoreRounds.com: 115-113 Marquez
    • Norm Frauenheim, 15Rounds.com: 115-113 Marquez
    • Martin Rogers, Yahoo! Sports: 115-113 Marquez
    • James Slater, EastSideBoxing.com: 116-112 Marquez
    • Nick Tylwalk, BoxingWatchers.com: 115-113 Marquez
    • Bob Velin, USAToday: 115-113 Marquez
    • Chris Manix, Sports Illustrated: 116-112 Marquez
    • Igor Guryashkin, ESPN: Marquez by one round
    • Brent Brookhouse, SB Nation: 115-113 Marquez
    • Will Cooling, FOX Sports/InsideFights: 118-110 Marquez
    • Andrew Fruman, The Boxing Bulletin: 116-112 Marquez
    • Ben Thompson, FightHype.com: 115-113 Marquez
    • Rich Marotta, KFI Los Angeles: 115-113Marquez
    • Dan Ambrose, BoxingNews24.com: 116-112 Marquez
    • Kevin Mitchell, The Guardian: 117-114 Marquez
    • Paul Magno, The Boxing Tribune: 115-113 Marquez
    • Jerry Izenberg, Newark Star-Ledger: 115-114 Marquez
    • Robert Morales, Los Angeles Daily News: 116-112 Marquez
    • Scott Christ, Bad Left Hook: 115-113 Marquez
    • Fox Doucette, The Boxing Tribune: 115-113 Marquez
    • Henry Ramirez, Boxing Trainer: 116-113 Marquez
    • Thomas Hauser, SecondsOut.com: 116-113 Marquez
    • Gerardo Granados, BoxingNews24.com: 116-112 Marquez
    • Robert Guerrero: 116-112 Marquez
    • Steve Kim, MaxBoxing.com: 115-113 Marquez
    • Graham Shaw, SportingLife.com: 116-113 Marquez
    • Max Kellerman, HBO: 114-114 Draw
    • Brian Arman Graham, Sports Illustrated: 114-114 Draw
    • Tim Dahlberg, Associated Press: 114-114 Draw
    • Kevin Iole, Yahoo! Sports: 114-114 Draw
    • Kieran Mulvaney, ESPN/Reuters: 114-114 Draw
    • Dan Rafael, ESPN: 114-114 Draw
    • Brian Campbell, ESPN Mobile: 114-114 Draw
    • george Elsasser, BraggingRightsCorner.com: 114-114 Draw
    • Jake Emen, ProBoxing-Fans.com: 114-114 Draw
    • Anthony Whitby, BoxingIQ.com: 114-114 Draw
    • Jeff Powell, The Daily Mail (UK): 114-114 Draw
    • Pace Miller, BleacherReport.com: 114-114 Draw
    • Gareth Davies, London Telegraph: 114-114 Draw
    • Larry Merchant, HBO: 114-114 Draw
    • Elie Seckbach, ESNews.com/AOL News: 114-114 Draw
    • Roy Jones, Jr.: Draw
    • Joe Bruiser, FightFan.com: 116-116 Draw
    • Michael Wright, ESPNChicago.com: Draw
    • Mark Lichtenfeld, Ring Announcer/Member, Ring Magazine Ratings Panel: 114-114 Draw
    • Teddy June, RingJunkies.com: 114-114 Draw
    • Rick Reeno, ***********.com: 114-114 Draw
    • Robert Ecksel, Boxing.com: 114-114 Draw
    • Frank Baltazar, Fight Manager/Inductee, California Boxing Hall of Fame: 115-115 Draw
    • ****** Tate, BleacherReport.com: 114-114 Draw
    • Doug Fischer, Ring Magazine: 114-114 Draw
    • Steve Carp, Las Vegas Review-Journal: 114-114 Draw
    • Gary Andrew Pool, The Atlantic: 114-114 Draw
    • Beau Denison, SportsPageMagazine.com: 114-114 Draw
    • Daniel Herbert, Boxing News: 114-114 Draw
    • Leighton Ginn, Desert Sun (Palm Springs): 114-114 Draw
    • Doveed Linder, BoxingTalk.com: 114-114 Draw
    • Bob Papa, HBO: 114-114 Draw
    • Andrew Eisele, Boxing.about.com: 115-115 Draw
    • Charles Horgan, Boxing Tribune: 114-114 Draw
    • Gordon Marino, The Wall Street Journal: 114-114 Draw (Note: At the end of his live blog of the fight, he indicated his belief that Marquez had won; however, in his round-by-round, he scored Rounds 1-2, 5-7 and 12 for Marquez and Rounds 3-4 and 8-11 for Pacquiao.)
    • Kevin Cunningham, Boxing Trainer: Draw
    • Harold Lederman, HBO: 116-112 Pacquiao
    • Joseph Herron, FightSaga: 116-112 Pacquiao
    • Cliff Rold, ***********.com: 115-113 Pacquiao
    • Will Carroll, Sports Illustrated: 116-112 Pacquiao
    • Allen Barra, The Atlantic: 116-113 Pacquiao
    • Chris Koegler, TheRealHook.com: 115-113 Pacquiao
    • David Kassel, FightHype.com: 115-113 Pacquiao
    • Rob Rutz, MyBoxingFans.com: 115-113 Pacquiao
    • Sean Sullivan, BoxingDigest: 115-114 Pacquiao
    • Ted Sares, Boxing.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
    • Brian Mazique, BleacherReport.com: 115-113 Pacquiao
    • Glen Anglin, BoxingNews24.com: 115-113 Pacquiao
    • Michael Rosenthal, Editor, Ring Magazine: 115-113 Pacquiao
    • Skip Bayless, ESPN: 116-112 Pacquiao
    • Jake Donovan, ***********.com: 115-113 Pacquiao
    • Ken Hissner, DogHouseBoxing.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
    • Bill Shimizu, Examiner.com: 115-113 Pacquiao
    • Massimo Lopes Pegna, La Gazzetta dello Sport (Italy): 115-114 Pacquiao
    • James Foley, BleacherReport.com: 115-114 Pacquiao
    • Anthony Lee, BoxingNews24.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
    • John McCormick, BoxingTalk.com: 115-113 Pacquiao
    • Graham Houston, FightWriter.com/FightNews.com/ESPN: 115-113 Pacquiao
    • Nick Fors, Pasionsports.com: 115-113 Pacquiao
    • Ronald Geronimo, NowBoxing.com: 115-113 Pacquiao
    • Danny Serratelli, EastSideBoxing.com: 115-113 Pacquiao
    • Ace Freeman, FightFan.com: 115-113 Pacquiao
    • Sean Faye, Eurosport Yahoo!: 116-115 Pacquiao
    • Scott Shaffer, BoxingTalk.com: 115-113 Pacquiao
    • Nate Ravitz, ESPN: 117-111 Pacquiao
    • Mike Chiari, BleacherReport.com: 115-113 Pacquiao
    • Patrick L. Stumberg, SBNation: 115-113 Pacquiao
    • Colin Seymour, FrontPageBoxing.com/Examiner.com: 115-113 Pacquiao
    • Jason Peck, EastSideBoxing.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
    • Steve Busfield, The Guardian: 116-114 Pacquiao
    • Nick Fox, Bad Left Hook: 115-113 Pacquiao
    • Stephen Edwards, BoxingTalk.com: 115-113 Pacquiao
    • Max Parker, Boxing Watchers: 115-114 Pacquiao
    • Adam Hirshfield, Bleacher Report.com: 115-113 Pacquiao
    • King J Gladney, BleacherReport.com: 115-113 Pacquiao
    • Ben Weisman, BoxingAsylum.com: 116-113 Pacquiao
    • Ken Pollitt, the13thround.com: 116-113 Pacquiao
    • Michael David Smith, AOL NEWS/MMA Fighting.com: 115-113 Pacquiao
    • Madra Uladh, EastSideBoxing.com: 115-113 Pacquiao
    • Michael Woods, ESPN/TheSweetScience.com: 115-114 Pacquiao
    • Brad Cooney, 8CountNews.com/Examiner.com: Pacquiao by one round
    • "Old Yank" Schneider, Boxing.com: 115-114 Pacquiao
    • Greg Leon, BoxingTalk.com: 115-114 Pacquiao
    • Steve Marzolf, InsideHBOBoxing.com: 115-114 Pacquiao
    • Darrell La Montre, BoxingTalk.com: 115-113 Pacquiao
    • Terra (Brazil): 116-112 Pacquiao
    • Joel Huerto, SportsFanLive: 115-113 Pacquiao

    • None of the above scores for Marquez or a draw is from Mexican media/boxers.
    • None of the above scores for Pacquiao or a draw is from Philippine media/boxers.
    • Among the unofficial scorers above, 57 scored the bout for Marquez, 51 scored the bout for Pacquiao, and the remaining 36 scored the bout a draw.
    [url]http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Manny_Pacquiao_vs._Juan_Manuel_Marquez_%283rd_meeting%29[/url]
     
    Slothrop, Dec 7, 2012
    Slothrop, Dec 7, 2012
    #6
  7. TheJuggernaut

    TheJuggernaut Hitchslap Full Member

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    **** that, youre crazy if you think there couldnt be more than 4 rounds to give to Pacquiao. Whether or not you had Marquez winning it wasnt a landslide like that by no means
     
    TheJuggernaut, Dec 7, 2012
    TheJuggernaut, Dec 7, 2012
    #7
  8. Kevin Jesus

    Kevin Jesus Active Member Full Member

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    Dec 16, 2009
    Marquez fans?

    A lot of boxing fans as well as Phillipino say Marquez won. I personally know a Phillipino boxing writer, good friend of mine, who had Marquez winning clearly.
     
    Kevin Jesus, Dec 7, 2012
    Kevin Jesus, Dec 7, 2012
    #8
  9. DrBanzai

    DrBanzai Active Member Full Member

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    May 11, 2012
    I had Pac winning the first fight by 1 point, 2 in the second fight.

    The third fight was a clear Pac win, JMM just ran all night, he landed less and was not the aggressor. You do not beat the champion by running away and landing less.
     
    DrBanzai, Dec 7, 2012
    DrBanzai, Dec 7, 2012
    #9
  10. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yea explained this in my Pac-JMM 3 scoring thread OP. To be robbed IMO you either have to not gotten the round for a "dominated round" OR, if there is like 6 or so close rounds, all 6 goes to one fighter. That proves bias IMO.

    In the thread where I watched the fight in slo-mo I had JMM winning 115-113. Pretty much the same score I had watching it live except I know watching it in slo-mo I didnt miss a thing.

    Clear rounds:
    Pac - 6, 12
    JMM 2, 5, 7, 8

    Pac won 2 clear rounds and JMM won 4 clear rounds. I think thats where the problem lies, the public remembers JMM winning more rounds because he won more clear rounds, but they dont actually count how many of those rounds were clear. Yea he could have won 5 clear rounds but if every single close round went to Pac, he still loses. Still, I think its unfair to give all close rounds to one fighter, hence why I thought Pac lost by a point.

    Link to that thread.
    [url]http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359905[/url]


    For the record, rewatching Pac-Bradley, it might be the same case but more extreme. I saw 5 clear rounds for Pacquiao, maybe 2 for Bradley, the judges literally had to give every single close'sh round to Bradley to have Bradley winning.
     
    dangerousity, Dec 7, 2012
    dangerousity, Dec 7, 2012
    #10
  11. Slothrop

    Slothrop Boxing Junkie banned

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    I hate these "you gotta takethe belt from the champ" comments. One of my biggest boxing pet peeves. You win a fight by stopping your opponent or scoring more points. Period.
     
    Slothrop, Dec 7, 2012
    Slothrop, Dec 7, 2012
    #11
  12. caliboxingfan

    caliboxingfan Member Full Member

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    Nov 11, 2011
    the thread is going away from the argument I made please re read the opening post if you forgot my point.

    basically its Marquez rounds won that the judges ROBBED (5) vs Pacquiao rounds that the judges ROBBED. (0)

    watch the rounds and explain why you disagree. if you can find rounds that marquez OFFICIALLY got that were robbed from pacquiao please post them.

    SO with the robbed rounds, pacquiao eeks out razor thin wins.

    for the ****s sake if you do NOTHING else PLEASE watch round 6 of second fight.
     
    caliboxingfan, Dec 7, 2012
    caliboxingfan, Dec 7, 2012
    #12
  13. caliboxingfan

    caliboxingfan Member Full Member

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    Nov 11, 2011

    They only use it when it benefits them. In the second fight MARQUEZ was the champ but pacquiao still got the benefit of the doubt.
     
    caliboxingfan, Dec 7, 2012
    caliboxingfan, Dec 7, 2012
    #13
  14. DrBanzai

    DrBanzai Active Member Full Member

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    May 11, 2012
    Yes, and JMM did not do that. He ran away, landed less and was less effective.

    PS I like the "you have to take the belt from the champ" comments.......you don't beat the champ because you almost had a draw with him,.
     
    DrBanzai, Dec 7, 2012
    DrBanzai, Dec 7, 2012
    #14
  15. |A|C|S|

    |A|C|S| Boxing Junkie banned

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    Third one wasn't close
    Only Pac fans say that
     
    |A|C|S|, Dec 7, 2012
    |A|C|S|, Dec 7, 2012
    #15
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