Ezzard Charles v Bob Foster

-This was middleweight Charles pre World War II. You are also over looking he was injured going into in the Marshall fight.

-Everyone is capable of being hurt.

-You think Foster would have found the right punch at least once at HW...losing to Mina, Jones, Foley, Terrell, Frazier, and Ali. Maybe he just needed to fight them more?

 

Charles had an injured hip and could barely stand. Yeah, Foster is probably knocking out a crippled 168 lb Charles.

 

And the Bivins fight?

Yes, but not everyone is capable of being "hurt" 15 times in two fights.

Why? Is this fight taking place at Heavyweight?

 

-Bivins was the number one HW and LHW in the World and at the absolute top of his game. Charles was primarly a middleweight at this time, and still a few years removed from the start of his peak run as a performer. It was also by most accounts fought outside in freezing snowy conditions and anything can happen in a situation like that. I really dont' think its fair to hold this fight against Charles as evidence of a shaky chin when he proved to be so much more durable in his LHW-HW run after the War. Where we assume this fight will take place.

-Its not. But at LHW Charles took out the top HW contenders. He was KOing fighters like Bivins and Ray inbetween Moore fights. Even if he was chasing the LHW title, he would end up being the #2 HW in the World after this run.

 

A fun bout at 180 lbs.

Could this fight produce '10' knock-downs.
Doug Jones nearly Kayoed Bob in the 1st Round.........

 

Mongoose - thanks for the info re Charles' injury in the first Marshall fight - those were the mitigating circumstances I was alluding to in my post.

Do I detect a note of sarcasm in your final sentence? I did not mean to hit a raw nerve, seriously.

 

Sarcasm? Always. No nerves hit. :good

 

Was he? Odd, then, as he wasn't exactly impressing much in his recent fights. Nor was he really a puncher.

I'll give you the size advantage, though. Charles's skills were already top notch obviously, but he hadn't filled out his form at this point. Bivins was likely just too big.

I still fail to see the relevance.

 

I don't think it's sensible to deride the chin of a 21 year old SMW Charles for dropping a decision to a guy who was considered one of the best heavies at the time. His training was also inconsistent given that he was in the military at the time... Is it really fair to knock charles for those KD's when he went 28 rounds with moore, 19 rounds with Ray, 15 with Louis, 9 with Haynes, 10 with Valdez, 31 with layne, 15 rounds with marciano, 36 rounds with walcott, and 2 with satterfield without ever tasting canvas? I'm sure you'd agree Foster punches as hard or weaker than some of these guys?

You're using the wrong fights as evidence against Charles' beard IMO.

 

Cool.

For me, Charles is one of the great aqquired tastes in boxing. As a youngster, when I first started following the sport, initially skimming the surface and reading various "history of boxing" type books, I always associated Charles as a HW because that's where he won his world title. It's only when you delve deeper both into boxing history and the career of Ezzard himself that you discover his great body of work at LHW.

Anyone else find this to be the case?

Also, threads like this are great because, one of the reasons I come on this board is to more about the noble art. Great stuff guys!

 

If what Mongoose has said is true then this has been pretty enlightening regarding those two fights. I've speculated about them but never really looked into it.

I wasn't trying to knock Charles for anything before being drawn into this half-assed argument. I was merely saying he didn't have a great chin. He had great skills is what he had, great resources, etc. etc. He could be sparked, though, and was hurt very often. Didn't he go down something like 30 times in his career? I don't think it's being too presumptuous to state that a puncher like Foster is capable of putting him down for the count once in 3 bouts. I think maybe you guys are underrating Bob's power/ability.

 

El Buija,,,,,,,,,,,,Much better photo,,,,,,,I always liked stripes.!!!!

 

-Are you serious? He was the "duration" HW Champion going into the Charles fight. Charles was a middleweight contender who only fought maybe twice above 160 lb. Bivins started an undefeated streak that would last for 4 years and 27 fights..claiming many major scalps and "duration" titles in 2 weight classes. It might be one of the finest runs in history.

-The fact that even below 175, Charles had proven HW durability and power at the elite level is fairly relevant. Especially in a match up with Foster.

Note-my initial disgust wasn't really projected at you but D.T. who I fear may be serious.

 

I've read conflicting reports about Charles' training at the time. Some say he wasn't able to do any boxing training or sparring at all, some only inconsistently. I actually agree that he didn't have a superb chin. He's been knocked out too many times for that. I simply don't think too much of Foster as a fighter overall- and that Charles would devour his comparatively simple style while taking Foster's shots. You have to remember that most of those KD's in his career happened early on... he was young, and fighting at a furious pace against incredibly skilled competition....without some proper context, those knock down numbers would lead you to believe charles couldn't take a punch at all.

 

I'm aware of his run afterwards, but leading up to the Charles fight he seemed to be winning bouts by the hair of his chinny-chin-chin, or if not, then engaging in none-too-fun snoozefests. Foster wasn't the greatest Heavyweight, but I don't even think it's out of the realm of possibility that he could pick up a few wins over the kind of opposition Bivins was facing just pre-Charles. I stand by what I said, he had not been impressing in recent fights, regardless of his run afterwards (which was quite impressive).

Yes, but why is that relevant to this bout, what with it being at Lt. Heavyweight and all?