This would be a Chess match between classic boxers. Charles, who is reguarded by many as the best Light Heavy ever. And who later went on to earn the Heavyweight title. And Johnson a top 10 all time Lt. Heavy, arguably top 5. A man who like Charles had all the Punches and skill, as well as a Man who, like Charles has been overlooked by the "experts". Who takes it? I go with Charles. A little sharper, more punch, and in with better people. Charles UD. 15.
Charles UD. Charles would make the fight, and land the harder punches. I saw a bit of Charles vs Layne last night. No doubt, Charles came to fight.
which charles layne fight? i suggest watching more of a 1940s charles, he was a defensive counterpuncher with excellent footwork, not a swarmer
Why do you think he made that change of style? It would make sense to go from a rather agressive style to defensive counterpunching when moving up in weight, but not the other around. He was still an excellent counter puncher with a tight defence, at heavyweight, mind you. Especially against Marciano. But still.
He was both, which made him great. At 175 his power was lethal and his reflexes were sharper younger and his footwork was more fluid, so he spent most of his fighting up on his toes counterpunching moving around the ring fluidly with his excellent pure boxing skills, however when he opened up he threw fast long hooks like sugar ray robinson that were deadly. at heavyweight, he faced alot more bigger targets so he used his much superior speed to go in and out cutting them up, landing on them at will. his legspeed reflexes and footwork slowed down a bit, so he relied on his handspeed pure boxing skills inside fighting ability a bit more, but like you said he was still an excellent counter defensive fighter in the 1950s, just not as good as at 175lb in say 1946-1948. According to mendoza though, charles was a swarmer who loved to brawl, he apparently didnt see all the shoulder roll step back counter right hands charles nailed marciano with in 1954. I guess thats not counterpunching defense.
When i was making the video on Marciano's defensive manouvres, it caught me how extremely skillful a lot of Charles' moves are. There were some instances of beautiful counter punching, i think on the night they fought, he may have been Rocky's best opponent although Walcott was very good too. I might make a video about him in the near future when i have more time, and more footage. Charles has something aesthetically very pleasing about his style. A complete fighter with a stiff jab, snappy counter punches and not afraid to mix it up.
I agree with this. Just to clear up any misconceptions, I think Charles liked to attack, and his style was mostly a stand and trade style, using his superior speed and skills to beat the other guy to the punch. Charles was game, but honestly, I do not think he fought smart in the Marciano, the Satterfield fight, the Valentino fight or the Louis fight. Lucky for Charles Louis was shot so even if he stood toe to toe with him, he was all right. The Satterfield vs Charles match is a doozy. A two round war with both guys going at each other, and both men rocked before Charles lands perhaps his best hook on film and ends it. Valentino, who was not that good was perhaps ahead mid way through the match until Chalres caught up with him. In all of the above fight, Charles was the better boxer, yet he did not opt to use this skills to win. Because Charles had a light frame ( Skinny legs, a thin neck, and a small head ) and an average heavyweight punch, I think he'd get KO'd by the champion bigger and stronger heavies using this type of style. He also carried his hands a bit low at times. The best little people with out a big punch do not beat the best big people by standing and trading in the heavyweight divison. They do it with defense, smarts and movement, which are something Charles, does not do much of on film. While he could do it at times, he doesnt do it very often. If anyone wants to post a Chalres film, I'd be happy to break it down to a T.
I don't think he carried his hands particularly low. Not more so than, say, a Holmes. He was extremely adept at keeping his right hand up to block Rocky's hook.
remember Charles was not popular with the hacks of the time. They said a lot of demeaning things about him and labelled him a broing fighter. Charles wanted to be appreciated, loved even, and often went into the ring with his ears buring from the put downs. He adopted a more up and at 'em style IMO to try and win the press over. In many fights he ahs the tools to disect his opponent but often decides to go to the trenches instead. I was told that once Charles felt satterfield's power he elected to try and end it early....
Charles' footage between Lloyd Marshall is a valuable source. Was surprised it even existed-out of the "murders row" fellows, we fortunately have two Lloyd Marshall footages (other with Freddie Mills) & the sole Burley footage. I do wonder if any others exist. Marshall actually drops Charles with what looks to be a body punch in the early going. Lloyd Marshall looked to be a TERRIFIC fighter.
Say what? I saw this fight on you tube. It was back and forth and the commentator said Valentino was up at one point before the knockout.
