Ezzard Charles vs Harry Greb

I was looking at Charles record and he clearly wasn't the same fighter beginning in the 50's. Before that he beat Archie Moore 3 times and Walcott twice, and many other good fighters. He was really a natural light heavy, what I was shocked by was his rematch with Marciano occurred only 90 days later! Way too soon after such a rough fight. I tend to agree with you, the Ezzard that beat Moore and Walcott may very well have beaten Rocky.

 

Charles and Marciano were beasts. But an ancient Charles pushed Marciano to the limit (some even thought he won), I find it a bit weird to rule out a Charles win from a few years earlier.

I think Charles from his early title defences uses his feet a bit more, and has the stamina to keep up with Marciano for longer, and would dictate the pace easier. He literally just has to do what he did in the first fight, but for 5 minutes more.

 

Based on their footage, I'm forced to pick Greb.

 

Charles' issue against Marciano would be durability. All through his career Charles was dropped and hurt by various fighters, and it didn't always take an all-time great puncher to do it. Even against a younger fresher Charles, I think Marciano would get to him eventually.

 

An interesting comparison of their records at light heavy:

This is the $64,000 question. Difficult due to no footage of Greb and the argument some have is that boxing evolved and newer fighters incorporated techniques and improved their training regimes

Are the two eras comparable and who had the better quality opponents? Greb certainly fought quite a few HOFers.

It's a pick'em fight for me, going on opposition probably Greb but I think a series would be like the Tuneey fights with close decisions that could be debated.

https://thegruelingtruth.com/boxing/ezzard-charles-harry-greb-light-heavyweight-perspective/

 

This is such a great thread for so many reasons.

 

In every match containing Charles, always tentatively go for Charles. So if we had Lennox Lewis vs Ezzard Charles say "I'm tentatively going for Charles"

 

Bull**** excuse!
Mar iano would beat any version of Charles and thaf 40s Charles was lighter and not as durable!
Oh Age excuses man Charles is only 1 year amd a half older than Marciano so please enough of excuses!
Slow down?Wins over Satterfield,Walcott and Moore are slow downs?

 

Need that Greb footage

 

For four rounds it was all Charles. The 185½-pound, 18-5 underdog boxed beautifully. Then the 187½-pound Rocky, bleeding profusely from a wide, inch-and-a-quarter gash over his left eye, came on.

The muscular, bulldozing champion almost put Ezzy away in the sixth, kept driving until he was ahead slightly by the 10th, and then almost stowed Charles away several times in the later rounds. In the last, he battered the swollen-faced, hands-down challenger all over the ring.

• Referee: Ruby Goldstein 5-8
• Judge: Artie Aidala 5-9
• Judge: Harold Barnes 6-8

 

"In the first bout, held in June 1954, he valiantly took Marciano the distance, going down on points in a vintage heavyweight bout. Charles is the only man ever to last the full 15-round distance against Marciano. A number of fans and boxing writers felt that Charles deserved the decision."

If a past prime Charles can win six rounds vs Marciano, it's stands to reason a prime one can win eight. Especially when you consider the two things you need to be Rocky without a size advantage are speed and conditioning, as an older man, Charles had diminished in both aspects.

 

I’m pretty sure they’d split fights in a series. Don’t think anybody could master Greb without a major size advantage.

 

Wasn’t he knocked down some 30 times in his career?

 

Yeah, but half of them are whilst he has Lou Gehrig's and in the period between the Marciano rematch and retirement. Then another 7 are in his fight with Marshall, where he was up and down like a yo-yo due to fighting with a hip injury.

He did go down a lot, but I think he's like Louis in that way; easy to drop but very, very hard to stop.

 

For four rounds it was all Charles. The 185½-pound, 18-5 underdog boxed beautifully. Then the 187½-pound Rocky, bleeding profusely from a wide, inch-and-a-quarter gash over his left eye, came on.

The muscular, bulldozing champion almost put Ezzy away in the sixth, kept driving until he was ahead slightly by the 10th, and then almost stowed Charles away several times in the later rounds. In the last, he battered the swollen-faced, hands-down challenger all over the ring.

The officials' votes brought no protests except from the Charles camp. Referee Ruby Goldstein had it 8-5-2, Judge Harold Barnes 8-6-1 and Judge Arthur Aidala 9-5-1. The Associated Press score card had Rocky far in front 10-4-1.

Thus spoke heavyweight champion Rocky Marciano after his thrilling, come-from-behind 15-round decision over game, undaunted Ezzard Charles in a savage scrap in Yankee Stadium last night.1

Marciano was 30 years old at the time of the first Marciano–Charles fight and Charles 33.[8]


Marciano–Charles IEdit
Rounds 1–4Edit
The first four rounds of the first Marciano–Charles bout revealed Charles's superior technical expertise. Marciano was outfought and outmaneuvered in these early rounds. Charles threw body shots at Marciano with great success; he also opened a two inch long and one inch deep cut over Marciano's left eye.[9][10] Marciano's cut man Freddie Brown, who later worked for Roberto Durán, would comment that he could not remember treating a cut worse than this one.[11]

Rounds 5–9Edit
In the fifth round, Charles surprisingly became defensive and stopped dictating the pace of the fight. In the early rounds, Charles had thrown body punches at Marciano with great success; by the fifth round Charles was no longer throwing these punches. Without making any effort to protect his eye, Marciano carried the fight to Charles, went on the offensive, found his rhythm, and seized the initiative in the fight. By the end of round 9, Marciano's face was a crimson mask, and yet he had managed to land so many punches on Charles that he was ahead in the scoring.[11][12][3]

Rounds 10–15Edit
By the 10th round, Marciano was clearly ahead and yet he kept fighting as if the decision was in doubt, and kept trying for a knockout. Charles managed to stay on his feet while withstanding Marciano's punches, but his face gradually started changing for the worse. His right eye closed, his lower lip was split and swollen, and a blood clot appeared on his left jaw. At the end Marciano won the fight with a unanimous decision.[13][14] Ruby Goldstein, who refereed this fight, commented:

The first fight went the distance with Marciano winning on points through a unanimous decision. In the second bout Marciano knocked out Charles in the eighth round.
How Charles who was 1,5 year older than Marciano was past his best because he beat Moore,Walcott,Louis,Satterfield....
In 40s Charles was MW,small weak and not durable!