Ezzard Charles Vs James Toney

My statement is very fair. A lot of members on this forum have compared Archie Moore to James Toney in style and substance. Difference being Moore could hit much harder. Charles went 3-0 vs Moore proving he could decisively defeat a man very similar in style defense and counterpunching to toney. If you want to go further, Walcott had a lot of similarities to toney except his footwork was better and he was bigger stronger and hit harder. Charles beat him twice.

Who did toney ever defeat with resume, talent, style of an Ezzard Charles?

McCallum? I’ve seen both fights. How long does a smallish 160lb 35 year old McCallum do against a prime Ezzard Charles? He wouldn’t last long

What is the agenda here? Charles is a top 5-10 p4p great. Toneys not good enough to be competitive with someone like that


“Conditioning issues”

And you don’t think that would be a problem against the cobra? Charles was viscious on fighters who gassed late

 

I’m curious what agenda someone could have for claiming Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles were on a different leve to James Toney

I have never seen anyone rate toney above either

 

Toney already proved he can KO Prince Charles

 

Funny, you didn’t even mentioned a prime 1946-1948 Charles in your post who may have been a top 5 great of all time


Toney stands a chance against that guy? Based on what evidence?

 

Well the tub of lard version of toney tested positive for anabolic steroids...

Is that fair for Charles to be pitted against a cheater?

 

oh, ok.

what about camilla parker bowles

 

I’ve done extensive exhausting research on Charles. Talked to one of his good friends whose now deceased rip

Let me share something that most people don’t know about Charles

1. The best version of Charles, including the best heavyweight version of Charles was the 1946-1948 Charles who weighed around 173-178lb...his conditioning speed reflexes were off the charts during those years. More than made up for the 10lb he put on in the subsequent years which only slowed him down and didn’t add a noticeable strength different. This version of Charles was every bit as great as you think, top 5 all time material

This Charles achieved levels and greatness toney could only dream of. That’s the Charles whom Toney would get decimated by.

 

Always mr argumentative about having to be rite. It's so old at this point. You dont even listen to what I'm saying because you only want to hear yourself. Not once did I compare Toney and Charles or Moore on your P4P list not once.
I said Toney does not fight or remind me of Moore just because they have a cross armed defense. So should we say Norton Spoon Foreman ect fight like them too. If you think they fight alike good for you pat yourself on the back.
In the time I spent boxing Toney is the man I barrowed most from along with some Walcott so if I barrowed that much from Toney because it felt so natural to me then why didn't I Barrow from Moore?? I mean I watched just about everything out there on Moore through the advent of YouTube also yet I picked up 0 from him into my game. But you always have to be rite it's annoying as f###. So let me put it this way In my humble opinion I dont think Moore and Toney are similar. You can accept it or not I dont give a #### anymore because you have become beyond the mister I have to be rite poster on here.
The post was Toney vs Charles which I'm still contemplating. NOT comparing Toney and Moore.
Respect the thread man!

 

Its healthy arguing. I like debating. I take no offense, I hope you dont

1. In my opinion Moore and Toney have very similar styles. So bringing up Moore is very relevant in a charles vs toney matchup since charles has experience fighting a man whose an ATG counter puncher with upperbody movement, slickness, and style similar to Toney.

2. I could pull up sequences from Toney Mccallum and point out how much Toney looks like the Moore against Lytell in 1947.

3. Walcott and Toney. Walcott had head movement, slickness, and upperbody movement like Toney but the difference is Walcott was much faster, trickier with his footwork. Toney did not move his feet as much. Toney's feet were similar to Archie's. Toney preferred shoulder rolls, upperbody movement, head movement like Archie compared to fast darting in and out of range footwork like Walcott displayed

So you don't rate Toney anywhere near Charles in a p4p list, yet you pick him to give Charles a very close fight, possibly beat him at his best? Why is this? Does resume's and accomplishments not factor into head to head ability?

When did the light-heavyweight, cruiserweight, non steroid heavyweight version of Toney prove he could beat someone in the class of a peak ezzard charles??

 

Here's my pick Toney UD Charles

 

That’s fine that’s your opinion. We can’t debate our differences? What’s the point of a forum then?

I personally feel Charles was in a higher class than Toney in both accomplishments and head to head ability

 

Theres debating. Then theres just pushing your agenda. You tend to do the latter 99% of the time and it's just to old for me to continue with. You still dont listen man.

 

The OP asks for a heavyweight fight. Charles only fought a couple times at heavy in those years. He certainly had an amazing run and I would undoubtedly pick him over Toney at light heavy, who was too inconsistent, especially when weight limits were involved.

Give me the Toney of the Jirov or Holyfield fight and you have a great match at heavy. I'm still picking Charles but Toney would make it respectable.

 

Ok that’s fair. I just don’t think it’s fair to pit the Toney of the Ruiz fight who tested positive for PEDs against Charles