Factor on Nortons chin

Bwahahahaha! Cooney wasn't anywhere near the calibre of Foreman AND SHAVERS!?!?!?!?

Dude, there's detox centers on every corners these days. Get yourself clean.

I hate to feed into your cry for help. But I do pity the suffering. Cooney is one of the biggest disappointments in Boxing history. He might not have really truly desired to become a Boxer. That really seems to have been more his father's decision. But Cooney was naturally talented. Until the point, dudes that big were usually just sloppy oafs: Willard, Carnera, Williams. You didn't see too many big guys with athleticism and natural talent, which Cooney had. But it was almost that Cooney was too good for his own good.

He liked to party - unlike most Boxers who were kinda ignored by society, and seen as second-rate athletes, Cooney was hugely popular, in NYC of all places. He was already living as if he were the world champion at exactly the point when he should have taken an ascetic turn, immersing himself in the sport wholly. He didn't go off the rails like almost every promising Heavyweight talent of the 80's who'd follow, but he was clearly a precursor.

He was overly attached to his trainer - his coach was more like a father figure than anything, which is understandable considering how his dad is reported to have been such a massive douche. But by the 70's, the point had arrived where promising talents needed to be handed off from the local gym they came up in, to elite trainers. Look at how Ali, a product of the 60's, was pampered by the wealthy of Louisville, sent to the amateurs (to fight as a Light Heavyweight, no less), and then was delivered to the veteran hands of Angelo Dundee, and his connections. Foreman, was brought up by Dick Saddler, worked as a sparring partner with Liston, had tutelage by Moore. By the time Gerry arrived to Gil CLancy, the best trainer of all time, it was too late. But Gil claimed if Cooney came to him when he debuted, no one would have stopped Cooney, certainly not Holmes.

He was too good - Cooney had a great talent for sleeping dudes. And he was rough in sparring. So no one wanted to spar him. And he was black-listed from match-making. He missed the opportunity to develop his skills and fell increasingly in love with his power. By the time he met Holmes his skills had actually ATROPHIED. Instead of developing, he regressed as a fighter. That was still the definitive fight of Holmes' pro career.

Shavers was a bum. Point blank. He might be the most over-rated Boxer in history. He had tremendous power, yes. But to act as if he's still the hardest puncher to grace Boxing is ridiculous. He also wasn't particularly skilled and was soft. He was stopped in 1 round by an old Jerry Quarry. Tremendous as Quarry was, he belonged at Light Heavyweight. And matching Quarry with Cooney would find you charged with homocide. Cooney was too big and aggressive for Quarry.

As for Foreman, Young retired Foreman. Foreman was great at beating up smaller dudes who stood in front of him. But when he met resistance - against one-dimensional Young and an old Ali he curred. His legacy has largely been salvaged by his comeback tour. Impressive as it was, it was largely staged: lots of hand-picked fights.

I wouldn't rank Cooney in the top 10. Clearly Foreman is there. But again, it's less about talent, and more about opportunity and decision making. Foreman was paired up with elite trainers and sparring partners early, and was a fully committed fighter. Cooney was always a neighborhood guy. Different trajectories, but definitely around or the same calibre.


As for the original question: Joshua punks Norton just like everyone with a punch did. Little Jerry Quarry scared Norton off from his camp because he kept tarring Norton. Norton is the first example of how PEDs don't do nothing for your chin or your balls.

 

I love Quarry, but the dude never belonged at Heavyweight. He had the talent to cream most fighters there, but the abuse he endured was never going to be worth it. That said, he clapped Norton's cheeks daily when Norton was his sparring partner. Apparently he KO'd Norton really badly, and that is when Kenny ran to Frazier's camp.

Norton shoulda been born a few years later, he would have done great in the NFL. But as a Boxer he has always handicapped by his chin... which was probably also linked to a lack of heart.

 

No. Norton would get put away fast. His style is custom-made for Usyk. And Usyk goes savage when he smells blood.

 

I am not sure how "chinny" Joshua is, either. I think his defense is somewhat porous, and his muscles sap him of wind early. Fighting dudes that big and that skilled is going to get your hurt - if you give them the chance. Joshua hands out chances like the skee-ball machine at an arcade.

So not the best chin, but I wouldn't say chinny.

That said, the dude has heart. You cannot take that away from him. He gets his ass back up and tries to fight. But again, he's limited... he doesn't adjust and keeps providing his opponent the same opportunities. Against Wlad, Wlad was simply more tired due to his age. But a younger Wlad would have put Joshua away.

Norton really didn't have a chin. But worse, he had already resigned himself to losing even before the first bell rang.

 

BOOM! Been saying it for years. Norton's chin seemed very dependable up to a certain point then gave away. It's weird. He took plenty of full blooded blows from Ali and Holmes over the course of 54 rounds without being dropped or in any great danger of a stoppage so you can't call him glass jawed in the true sense. Those two stopped a lot of guys. Holmes could wear down plenty of guys over 15 but Norton even when turning 35 stood tall.

I would agree part of the problem is that he was often put on the back foot and was terrible off it. This compounded things in that the bigger hitter could land more easily and frquently so it also killed off his recovery time.

Having said that only Foreman stopped him during his very best years as he was certainly declining by the time Shavers got him.