Facts about Vitali

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Redbeard7, Jul 5, 2023.


  1. Beale

    Beale Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,881
    10,529
    Feb 13, 2023
    Vitali Klitschko and Lennox Lewis are two legends of the Heavyweight Division.

    Anyone who thinks otherwise should buy the Joshua v Whyte Box Office
     
    The Cryptkeeper likes this.
  2. The Cryptkeeper

    The Cryptkeeper Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,938
    5,602
    May 9, 2023
    So I just rewatched the Lewis vs Vitali fight for the first time in years. The three things that stood out to me were:

    1) the stoppage was absolutely correct and even possibly a round or two too late.

    2) Vitali was winning the fight when it was stopped but both guys were spent and it would almost certainly have ended in a KO had it continued. Either guy could have won. It was a 50/50 fight at that stage as there is no way it was going to the cards.

    3) anybody who thinks that Lewis was any more than 70% fit must have their eyes painted on. Of course, that’s on Lewis. Even though he took the fight at short notice, he should have been in better condition than he was.
     
    C.J. and Levook like this.
  3. Levook

    Levook Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,613
    3,076
    Aug 26, 2020
    Is it a fact that Lewis retired because he was scared of Vitali?

     
    The Cryptkeeper likes this.
  4. Levook

    Levook Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,613
    3,076
    Aug 26, 2020
    Is it a fact that Lewis retired because he was scared to fight Vitali again?

    Yes, it is my opinion that Vitali was prime, just like your opinion that Lewis was scared, right?

    Are you saying Lewis was scared of McCall too?
     
    The Cryptkeeper likes this.
  5. Levook

    Levook Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,613
    3,076
    Aug 26, 2020
    I'm not a Lewis "fan", not any more than I am a fan of any other fighter with a very few exceptions. There's only a few that I like more than all the others and Lennox is not one of them.

    Just wanted to say this to let peeps know that I'm no Lewis fanboy or a Vitali hater. I "like" VK & LL the same (even though Lewis would rip Klitschko's head off in his prime). :p
     
    The Cryptkeeper likes this.
  6. Levook

    Levook Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,613
    3,076
    Aug 26, 2020
    And I'll give Vitali this: the dude had ATG toughness. He feared no one, was always in excellent condition and always gave a great effort. His dedication & true sportsmanlike conduct is something to be respected, a champion you wouldn't mind your kids emulating.
     
    The Cryptkeeper likes this.
  7. Joe.Boxer

    Joe.Boxer Chinchecker Full Member

    7,605
    1,101
    Jan 8, 2011
    Over those 2 opening posts you wait until your very last line to slip that one in :naughty2: :lol:.

    I'm sure there's a thread on the subject still lurking somewhere :argue::deal: :naughty2:.
     
    The Cryptkeeper likes this.
  8. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,289
    2,331
    Oct 9, 2022
    "Is it a fact that Lewis retired because he was scared to fight Vitali again?"

    "Scared" is a loaded word. He was scared of blowing his legacy by his own admission and rematching Vitali or fighting Wlad risked doing that.

    "Yes, it is my opinion that Vitali was prime"

    Some facts: Lewis was an experienced champion coming off a dominant performance, Vitali was a relatively inexperienced contender, a B-side and a 5/1 underdog, Lewis wanted 3+ more fights going into 2003, including fights with both Klitschko's.

    "Are you saying Lewis was scared of McCall too?"

    Probably. McCall had just one-shotted Lewis in 2 rounds and taken his 0, Lewis then had four rehabilitation fights (where he was criticised for excessive caution) before the McCall rematch 2.5 years later. So I imagine he'd have been considerably more nervous in an immediate McCall rematch than he was vs Butler and Fortune.
     
  9. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,289
    2,331
    Oct 9, 2022
    "possibly a round or two too late"

    Did Vitali have any permanent damage (let alone serious damage) from it being stopped "a round or two too late"? It doesn't seem like it. Give me some examples in combat sports where cuts have caused serious permanent damage, bonus points for recent boxing/MMA history as medical science has greatly advanced.

    "Either guy could have won. It was a 50/50 fight at that stage"

    Yeah. That's how it was seen at the time, why the stoppage against Vitali's will was controversial and why a rematch was so heavily demanded.

    "anybody who thinks that Lewis was any more than 70% fit"

    This is like people saying "Wilder had something wrong with him in the 2nd Fury fight, he's never gassed like that before". Fighting better opponents = you gas faster. It's entirely possible that Lewis's additional weight helped him win the fight (durability, power, strength etc.)
     
  10. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,289
    2,331
    Oct 9, 2022
    "Judging other people's motives is something impossible to do"

    Lewis told us: "I've build a legacy, why put it all at risk rematching Klitschko?"

    "it wouldn't have been humane at all for Lennox to step into the ring with him again"

    Just like it wasn't "humane" for Lennox to chase Tyson for a rematch? lmao.

    "Skipping the Vitali rematch was also the best thing for boxing."

    It was the best thing to minimise risk to Lewis's legacy, regardless of how much money was on the table.

    "You have to be putting in work for the race to see Vitali as ahead on points at the time of the stoppage."

    Three white supremacist judges (including one Chinese white supremacist judge) "putting in work for the race". Racist punch stats too. Even white supremacist Lewis didn't think he was ahead, giving himself 3 of 6 rounds. Anti-black Emmanuel Steward had Lewis 4-2 down.

    "an easy ko waiting to happen in the next 2 rounds"

    Considering that Lewis was never able to hurt Vitali and Vitali was never officially dropped in 47 fights, let alone KO'd, it's not likely, let alone "easy" or "guaranteed". Even more unlikely considering that Lewis had 0 stoppages past 8 rounds and didn't carry his power late.

    "Fact is that when you have enough then you don't really care."

    "If the money's right I'll rematch Klitschko, bring on his brother too" - L. Lewis immediately post-fight, interview with Larry Merchant

    Your whole argument (if you can call it that) is based on provable falsities and accusations of racism.

    "ducked Tyson Fury and chose to have his retirement fight against Manuel Charr instead"

    41 year old Vitali wasn't pretending to be the No.1 in the division and was generally fighting lesser competition in his WBC defences, 37 year old Lewis was claiming to be the best and talking about at least three more fights pre-Vitali, against both Klitschko's and a rematch with Vitali "if the money's right".
     
  11. C.J.

    C.J. Boxings Living Legend revered & respected by all Full Member

    46,772
    15,890
    Apr 14, 2009
    When did Lennox demand Vitali fight Kirk ???? ROFL now you are stretching it. The rumors at the time were Kirk was offered a way out of fighting Lennox , knowing he wasnt 100% ,by dropping out injured with the promise of fighting Vitali after. Doing that would have caught Lennox un prepared & vulnerable.
    Anyone that saw the Kirk Johnson that opposed Vitali was not the real Kirk Johnson he was just there for the pay check. His heart was taken from him by John Ruiz & Joe Cortez for robbing him of the WBA title.
     
  12. C.J.

    C.J. Boxings Living Legend revered & respected by all Full Member

    46,772
    15,890
    Apr 14, 2009
    Hang on a minute now , Vitali was no saint . Both him & Wlad were busted for steroids as amateurs I believe
     
    The Cryptkeeper and Levook like this.
  13. Levook

    Levook Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,613
    3,076
    Aug 26, 2020
    Ok, maybe we can agree on this:

    Vitali is the fight that made Lewis realize that he was at the end and had nothing left, he'd reached his limit, had plenty of tough fights, had been the man at HW for a long time and was done.

    Sound reasonable?
     
    The Cryptkeeper likes this.
  14. Levook

    Levook Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,613
    3,076
    Aug 26, 2020
    Wow didn't know that ty for the info.

    I was talking more about their conduct as athletes in the ring, sorry to hear that about their AM careers.
     
  15. Levook

    Levook Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,613
    3,076
    Aug 26, 2020
    How scared did Lewis look in Rahman 2?
     
    C.J. likes this.