Fantasy Fight: Rocky Marciano vs Joe Frazier

Bonavena timed Frazier´s wrong bob and weave. Look at the first knockdown, Frazier walks with his head right at Bonavena´s punch.

I see no reason why not to think Rocky wouldn´t do much better.

 

So, you are going to make your estimation of Frazier on one of his worst performances whilst near prime.

Can we gauge Marciano on his performance against WIllie Applegate or Don Cockell or Ted Lowry?

 

Bad performance because of what Bonavena did, not because of Frazier didn´t do, look at that fight and tell what Frazier was doing worse than later on in other fights, his bob and weave was the same.

My major point was that Frazier´s bob and weave (him coming up in the middle) wouldn´t match well if he was facing Marciano.
We don´t have these fights you mention to look at and make a point to how Frazier could explore Rocky´s flaws like those guys did.
The fight with Don Cockell, c´mon, Marciano was basically retired, can I bring up Frazier´s fight with the Jumbo or whatever his nickname was?

 

Please... Frazier had quicks and youth, two things Rocky never faced in combination. Frazier also holds the single greatest victory in the history of the division.

How the F was Rocky basically retired against Cockell? I have his training regimen. Didn't seem like he was retired. He was testing out that broken beak against a subpar fighter to continue his career. This assertation just proves your desperation in this discussion.

You well know that Frazier would tear that lil, truncated, slow feller to pieces.

 

And Frazier never faced a rock solid "brutishly skilled" offensive puncher like Rocky.
You guys are making me sound like a Frazier hater, not true...... yes I am a big Marciano fan, I am, but gotta be honest, Frazier had more flaws, I see more flaws in Frazier..... his defense was too reckless, Rocky was more "cunning" in how he avoided punches....

Oh, Rocky was thinking about retiring before the Cockell fight, seriously thinking about it. His mind was elsewhere by that time... sure, he took it seriously and trained hard, but he was pretty much distracted and not the same guy mentally.

 

Frazier flaws? Frazier had quicks. Frazier had footwork. Frazier had head movement. Frazier fought live, young fighters. Frazier didn't sit in a small market hockey arena for 70% of his fights.

Marciano saw the writing on the wall. He was out of old, used-up lightheavies to face till Moore peaked his head up.

Frazier KO7 after winning every second of every round.

 

Frazier was not fighting giants either. He had some troubles when faced one in Busther Mathis if I remember well...
He had flaws, Seamus, I don´t like seeing his bob and weave, kinda suicidal against other agressive punchers if you ask me.
You need to appreciate Rocky better, he became super underrated with the passage of time.

 

Most heavyweights including all the pro heavyweights that fought pro boxing, sure.

Among the best ones ? I find his head movement too much style over substance.

 

Frazier was not in his prime when he fought Bonavena the first time, look at their second fight to see the difference, 68-71 was Frazier's prime, a high output style like his only has ~3-4 years

 

I do not know if Frazier's style would not work well on Rocky.
But Marciano was never "basically retired": I read he could not "get up for" the Cockell fight, but he was champion, only 31, & defending his title at a regular clip, & not even at his last fight when he was still great vs. Moore.
Besides boxers always talking about it & often delaying or coming back, when did he even start talking about retirement?

I just noticed he died a day before his 46th birthday.
If I knew that I had forgotten.

 

Okay, but he was a olympic gold medalist and he fought Eddie Machen right next and looked great and put a beating on Machen.

What if I say that Bonavena was not in his prime in their rematch ? Frazier beat a past prime Ringo, he was partying every night in America in those days.

My point was a tehcnical one, something that Frazier (pre, on, or past prime) did that made him got hit a lot.

Let´s be real, Frazier got hit a lot, he was tough, otherwise he would have many more knockout losses in his record.

No one that got hit so much like Frazier.. is going to beat Rocky in 15 round fight.

 

Well...For a relatively swarmer I do not know if Frazier got hit a lot.
The record of how often Ali hit him-what percentage landed- even when they were at their best in FOTC showed impressive evasion.
I do not know if Marciano avoids more blows.
True his movement was less predictable-but he was also slower & moved less.

 

Let´s make it simpler.

Frazier got hit more often than Rocky, you disagree with that ? It´s okay if yes.
Now...... Who was the bigger puncher ?
They would both hit each other often.....

 

Good debate on Rocky-Frazier, you guys. I'm on the Entaowed side but Vic-Jofre makes his points well. Can we talk about the character flaws of the two fighters that emerged during their retirement years? Joe carried his grudge against Ali to a ridiculous degree. After Ali, shaking badly from Parkinson's, carried the Olympic torch in Atlanta, Joe was quoted as saying he was hoping Ali would set himself on fire. Joe, that was unseemly. Not a good look for a great champ like you. But that was just one ugly moment in time. Rocky, you were worse. You were an IRS-cheating, fat, money-grubbing slob and a loan shark stuffing cash in places nobody would ever find, including you. Pretty stupid way to live if you ask me. And whenever you went, you had women fed to you -- but after just one loveless tumble in the hay you got rid of them. After you had 'em once you wanted nothing to do with them. They'll never call you a gentleman, Rocky. You were a great fighter but as a man you had no class.