FAO: true believers in the supremacy of the heavyweight division. If all three favorites lose...

That works too

 

Let's say you get down to 8 percent of bodyfat. And you dont lift weights for hypertrophy. And then you cut more than 10 pounds of water weight. Vast majority of adult males in this world will not be within 15 pounds of the LHW limit. The average man around the world is probably no bigger than a natural Welterweight. Obviously some regions like Scandinavia will scale larger. And southeast Asia will scale smaller on average.

 

that argument would have more impact, if very skilled and agile hw's had never existed... but ive seen em, and they aint around anymore. usyk might change that.

 

Yes Ali and Tyson were fast with their feet. But they were classical HW size. Basically modern Cruisers. And even then their footwork and agility was nowhere near as fast as Pac or Loma.

 

yes, they are rare, as they should be. they are fighting at one extreme of the bell curve, but they exist, if only to prove how lacking the rest are in comparison.

 

Well that's a reasonable bodyfat percentage for a guy who trains and diets for a living and is serious about making weight. Keep in mind this is their actual job.

8 percent is very low and a ridiculous standard for the average joe. But we are talking about adult males who's literal profession is to condition their bodies and make weight.

 

I actually thought about that and that's probably true. At the world levels though where these guys can focus the entirety of their lives on boxing they likely are.

 

Would there not be an advantage to cut down as low as possible to bang on smaller men? Errol Spence looks 8 percent. Cutting that last few pounds of fat is why he can make 147.

Carl Froch said his natural weight was 190 pounds. But by cutting muscle and fat (not too much to compromise strength and stamina) and dehydrating he made 168 pounds easily. And I'd say that Froch was definitely bigger than the average man. Not a whole lot of guys out here are walking around at 190 pounds with abs. Especially without bulking up with weights.

Which is why I think the average man is no bigger than a natural Welterweight.

 

Records are records dude, the numbers tell a lot. Picture this:

There is a guy in your neighbourhood, the baddest guy in there and he whoops everyone. He looks like the king of fighting. Then he enters a district tourney, and all the baddest in their neighborhood enter, he gets whooped. Shows his level. If he goes on to whoop those guys, then that shows his level, he whooped the guys who whooped on guys. And then there's a national tourney...etc.

So with records the way I see it is this:

There's a guy, he's 30-0, but the average record of his opponents are 1-10, 0-0, 10-2 etc. He STILL has to be a very good fighter, fact is, to go undefeated or to beat that many opponents says a lot about you, whether they sucked or not, because on any given night you could have a bad night. I fought amateur and I sure as hell wasn't undefeated, made me wonder how good the guys that had very strong records.

Then you can take that further, being 30-0 feasting on bums is great and all, but imagine being 30-0 beating guys with an average record of 30-0? So not only are you 30-0 beating bums, you are 30-0 beating the guys who beat bums? Wow. Thats a world champion level right there.

Then you take that further, you're the guy whos 30-0, who beat the guys who we're 30-0 and those guys beat the guys who were 30-0 who feasted on bums? Levels. You're effectively at the top level now, the people who did these are guys like Floyd, Pac, Ward etc. If I was to make that comparison it would be something like:

Frankie Sanchez - fodder.

Dimitry Salita - This guys is very good, he had a very strong undefeated record of like 30-0, beating decent guys with 17-2 records and crap guys like 4-8, but to have a very strong winning record despite the opposition shows how good he is. His record consists of fodders and journeymens. He himself is a contender/journeyman.

Khan - This guy whooped guys with very strong records, he's the level 3 guys. A championship material. He's not just 30-1 or whatever, he beat guys who was 30-1.

Crawford - This is the top level, he didnt get his 30-0 record beating 30 bums, he didnt even get it beating 30 guys with 30-0 records who beat bums. He got his record by beating 30 guys who beat 30-0 guys and those 30-0 guys beat bums.


How does this all relate to rungvisai? Well for 1, he had 4 losses, and 2 of his losses came from a couple of guys with 16-0 record and 29-0 record. So he couldn't have been level 4, he was at most level 3. He was like a Salita who beat bums, but he also beat a bunch of level 2 salitas, which made him Khan level.

Now I ask again, imagine if Crawford or Floyd were to lose to a guy who's last 5 opponents were like 0-0-0, had 4 losses and 2 of those was to a 16-0 fighters and 29-0 fighter. Runvisai's record reflects that of Khans. Imagine if Floyd was to lose to Khan, or a Danny Garcia? Was he ever really p4p?

And thats your education on levels.

Most of the people in these forums never boxed, never coached, probably never set foot in a boxing gym. They watch a lot of boxing, and because they follow more unknown fighters from obscure weight divisions, think they're some sort of boxing guru. Chocolatito was one of the weakest p4p 1's in history. The weight class of 115 below has typically been one of the weakest in history.

And its not about the division not being mainstream, when true talents come up in those obscure weight divisions, it goes mainstream. Hamed, Pac, MAB/Morales, Rigo and now Inoue. talent shows. HW was dead for a while because it was talentless. Now its full of talent thats why its hyped again. No point in trying to force hype into a talentless division, which is what they did with Chocolatito.

 

True, but being shredded is part of getting your weight down to maximise your advantage

 

Fury came up through the crap Wlad era in which a couple of fights like the above put you in contention for a mandatory title shot.

 

I think most heavyweights these days can make cruiserweight if they cut down until they were shredded and lost water weight. I believe it's because of PEDs and the resurgence of weight training as the reason why the average heavyweight is more heavy set these days.

Wilder is very lean with a muscular upper body, but just small legs. He can definitely make cruiserweight by just cutting some water and the man is 6'7. I agree that if the average man were to be a lean pro boxer they would be at a weight class like 147. Weight training allows people to blow up past their natural maintenance state.