Farewell, ESB!

CT don't leave us for trivial pursuits like work. I really enjoyed the debates mate. Maybe you'll be able to make the odd 30miniutes to debate on ESB. I and the rest hope so

 

strangely enough, we never crossed paths. What kind of project is he pursuing?

 

You'll be missed mate, hope you find some time off to post once in a while.

 

No. It just meants there were excessive number of bad American fighters around back then. All training in a foolish manner. It was a world where the would be amatures had somehow ended up pro. Your arguments are as long winded and irrelevant as ever.

You could have gone out with an apology for your years of pro-1940s posting, but posted even more of this poison instead.

You point out the rest of the world boxes more, but then come in with your shitty weighting. "But in America a few more people were boxing....this obviously outweighs the rest of the world." Garbage.



As for the greater number of defeats, this a result of inconstant performers, largely because they fought too much and could not peak for each fight. You have a lot of wins and losses amonst the top domsstic level fighters. They are all competetive too, at a poor level. You would perhaps have had a point had the entire shape of boxing not changed. You also forget the streaks of Pep, Greb and Robinson. That simply could not happen today, not on that scale, becaue there are too many competetant opponents out there. They were all awful back then, so it could be done by the few standouts.



Pacman KOs Pep, Barrera schools him.


However, goodbye and goodluck with your other pursuits.

 

fitting you leave with probably the best 15th round ever of heavyweight boxing. Thanks cross_trainer :good

 

Best wishes in your endeavours C_T.


BTW, I don't remember reading about the relevance of global population increase over time and the fact that there are more men of a heavyweight's stature around today than back in the days of old. I just will not let go of the notion that old timers are more mythical than magical.

 

Population statistics might be not be quite what they seem at first glance. Much of it is in countries with little or no boxing tradition, such as China and India.
Also the population is larger, but also much older. What is the raw totals of young men in their twenties now as compared to sixty years ago? I don't think the modern edge would be nearly as wide as you assume.

 

Sorry to see you go. This does mean that I might have a chance to win the ESB's Best Writer Award, though...

 

"outweighs the rest of the world"

If I read Cross-Trainer correctly, he pointed out that boxing was also an very international sport as long ago as the twenties with champions and challengers from several continents. The fact that Americans did a better job of competing back then might be due to boxing slipping in America, for reasons that are not hard to pinpoint, rather than an increase in competition from other countries. Only Eastern Europe has really come on board in the couple of decades, and it has certainly given competition a real shot in the arm.

How international was competition long ago:

In the 1930's Marcel Thil of France was recognized as middleweight champion. Top challengers included Len Harvey and Jock McAvoy of Britain, Ignacio Ara of Spain, Erich Seelig of Germany, Kid Tunero of Cuba, Lou Brouillard of Canada, plus the Americans Teddy Yarosz and Gorilla Jones.

In 1952, Sugar Ray Robinson was champion. Top challengers included Randy Turpin of Britain, Charles Humez and Pierre Langlois (among others) of France, Tibero Mitri of Italy, Luc Van Dam of Holland, Dave Sands of Australia, George Angelo of South Africa, Claude Milazzo of Morocco, plus the promising youngsters Gustav Scholz of Germany and Eduardo Lausse of Argentina. Welterweight king Kid Gavilan of Cuba also frequently moved up and would eventually challenge Bobo Olson for the middleweight crown.

I don't know what "excessive number of bad Americans" means, but boxing was obviously very international those many years ago.

 

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I cannot remember his name but supposedly there was an extremely talented Russian heavyweight during Joe Louis' reign as heavyweight champion that many Russians feel would have defeated the Brown Bomber.

 

Nikolai Korolyov

 

Nice post :good

 

On what basis is this opinion held, though. Louis was a world champion who defeated World and European champions Schmeling and Carnera, European champion Uzcudun, South American champion Godoy, British Empire champion Farr, as well as several other international opponents.

I have no doubt Korolyov was a great national amateur champion and perhaps a top prospect, but it is just unsubstantiated speculation what he would do against Louis. Did he in fact defeat an Olympic champion, a European professional champion, or any top level world rated fighter at all?

 

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