Fascinating:Corbett on Peter Jackson v Jack Johnson and who would you pick?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Oct 9, 2011.


  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    "I have always thought of Jackson as one of the world's greatest fighters. He had all the attributes of a pugilist from from footwork to judge of distance to a punch in either hand. He contrasts with Johnson in the point of cleverness. Peter Jackson was a machine in the ring in many respects. Such cannot be said of Johnson. The latter, however, has a way of handling himself that is almost as affective as extreme cleverness. He is very awkward in many of his movements but that awkwardness fools his opponents.


    Jackson has a better left than Johnson and he used it to great advantage. I'll never forget how hard I found it to stay away from. He played for my jaw continually but never landed hard enough to jolt me. But he landed more often on me in those sixty one rounds that I fought him than any other fighter I ever met."





    I find Jackson's remarks about Johnson's cleverness - or lack of it!! - fascinating. Corbett seems to think that Johnson's style lends him a "natural" cleverness, almost like that of a Marty Marshall rather than a Roy Jones - that is, he credits an "awkwardness" rather than an extreme athleticism, certainly rather than cleverness, as being what throws opponents off.

    Most people, I think, would tend to name Johnson as one of the, if not the cleverest of the HW champions. I think he might be my pick. Corbett's remarks, casually made, suggest one of three things. 1) Johnson wasn't as clever as we think. 2) Corbett cannot give an accurate account of Johnson the fighter due to certain inherent prejudices. 3) Johnson was so clever as to fool a fighter of Cobett's genius.

    I tend to rule out two. This is because i've read an article recently written by Corbett praising Johnson as Jeffries superior in 1909...if not in a "prime for prime" type scenario. What do you make of all this?

    And, as an aside, who would you favour in a Jackson-Johnson match up?
     
  2. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Johnson's style is very effective and maybe 'clever'. HE uses little energy but manages to stay out of range of his opponents attacks and doesn't get hit. On the inside he leans on opponents and twists their arms to wear them out. On the inside he holds and throws big uppercuts, a very effective. So he's gradually winning the fight and breaking his opponent down while not sapping his energy resources. When you bear in mind some of his fights, like the Flynn fight were scheduled for many many rounds, this is the perfect strategy

    Technically he breaks many rules of modern textbook boxing but it works for him against his opposition and in his time
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    This isn't from a modern perspective though - it's from a contemporary perspective.
     
  4. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He might be saying that Johnson did not box by the "textbook" (the early 1900's textbook anyway) and thus wasn't as skilled as Jackson whom he describes as a "machine".

    Johnson obviously had a very unique style that was highly effective. I believe that he was creative, innovative and clever too, he had to have been. But you could argue that the way he boxed may not have been so effective for a different person with different physical characteristics. Perhaps Jackson's style was all about learned skill and technique, which puts him above Jack Johnson in cleverness according to Corbett's estimations.
     
  5. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    You have to bear in mind this maybe a bit of 'I fought him, so therefore he's better'
     
  6. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Peter Jackson and Jack Johnson were both better than James Jeffries in my opinion
     
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Plausible.
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    George Siler the great referee saw both from close up, he said Jackson had the edge in power, but there was nothing to choose in science between them, he thought Jackson the superior fighter to not only Johnson, but Corbett and Fitz.
    Corbett in his dotage ,called Johnson the" Emperor of Fistiana"

    and Johnson told Fleischer," Nat that's the nicest thing anyone ever said about me". But in earlier years Jim could never bring himself to give him any credit ,Johnson was allways complimentary towards both him and Jeffries ,but then I think he showed more class than either as far as that goes. I rate Johnson over all those you listed, but you probably guessed that.Sooner watch Dempsey though!
     
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I could believe all this and for a while, I was high high off Jackson, but in the end you're left groping for the details a bit.
     
  10. JWSoats

    JWSoats Active Member Full Member

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    Interesting comments. In his autobiography The Roar of the Crowd, Corbett is not very generous in his praise for the abilities of most of his heavyweight champion successors. Jackson apprears to be the boxer that he praises highest. As of 1925 he says that Peter Jackson may well have been the greatest fighter of them all. It strikes me odd that he would describe Johnson as awkward rather than clever - most descriptions I've seen of Johnson are the other way around. Despite his "Gentleman Jim" nickname, Corbett had an ego that was up there with the best of them - perhaps he saw Johnson's cleverness as a threat to his own???
     
  11. Swarmer

    Swarmer Patrick Full Member

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    I tend to think of Jackson as something of an Ali but with Black Dynamite-style execution... Mobile and elusive with accurate and educated straight punching, but with more explosive delivery. I tend to think his movement, feints, and straight punches would give Johnson hell.

    I think i'd favor him if only because it would be a fencing match. And I don't think I've seen Johnson dominate a top class opponent in that sense.
     
  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Hard to say. I think Jackson hit a little harder, was a tad quicker on his feet, and had better out fighting skills. I never read anything about Jackson taking the easy way out, but I have read Johnson coasting or quitting.

    Johnson was stronger, a better in-fighter, and a better clincher. Neither fighter had a good enough chin to rule out a come from behind type of KO. But style wise here Jackson could box well, and Johnson defense's on print had trouble with the likes of a pillow fisted O'Brien's jab. I would go with Jackson on points but its really hard to say.