Faster Handspeed Dempsey Or Marciano?

As I stated, I thought it was a given. Forgive my assumption.

I will next start my Faster Handspeed Byrd or Valuev thread.

 

I'll ask you again. I didn't ask you to name me who has him in the top 15.. I'm ask YOU, which HW's did Tunney beat that would afford him that ranking? Simple

No, my logical inference in spot on. It doesn't matter how long there were ratings or not ratings, that is a red herring. We know that Wills was considered his no. 1 challenger for a number of years, regardless if the "Rings ratings" came out. So I'll ask you again, explain to me to logical inference here... Fighter A avoids a fighter smack dab in the middle of your prime who's regarded as his best challenger i.e. no. 2 ... then, while past your best, decide to take on your no. 2 who's a different fighter... So tell me, which do you think fighter A thought more highly of considering their actions?

 

Tunney's claim as a top 20 heavyweight is the flimsiest claim in the sport. Utterly without merit or any logical backing.

 

Dempsey. Marciano would win a fight.

 

What? I never said anything about Marciano. You said that Dempsey didn't fight the best of his era. I responded by saying that he fought Gene Tunney with no warm up fights. I also noted that Gene Tunney is regarded as an atg p4p fighter as well as an atg heavyweight. Anyone with a brain actually considers Tunney a great heavyweight.

Is this your way of trying to spin around the fact that you claimed I said something I didn't?

My post had nothing to do with what you responded to. It has to do with YOUR response to what you responded to.

 

Re-read the quotes at hand, and get back to me when you do. You're totally off base here.

Even going by what you said, you didn't disprove what I said by saying he fought Tunney. He AVOIDED WILLS and GREB to name two. So how does him fighting Tunney, or any Tom D1ck and Harry make us forget that he avoided those two glaring names? IT DOESN'T PROVE your point, and well, that IS the point.

 

Well aware of the baseless numbers assigned to Tunney by these "scholars". The undertaking of boxing history is more a process of cannonization, of preserving an order and heiarchy than any rational assessment. It is more cult than study. They are more priest than scholar. And that is why so much of it increasingly bores me.

 

You keep postulating and avoiding the direct question. It doesn't matter IF 100000 people have Tunney in there, I don't, and so don't a lot of people. Which was my point. Stop taking a sentence in isolation, and said to make a point more clear, and try and avoid relevant questions after. Are you going to keep repeating that Tunney IS on somebody's list, just because I said, he's not on many people's? Once you said he's on people list, I didn't disagree, I said he's also not on many, including mine. Yet you still parrot this angle of, well let me keep listing people who have him there, because I'm going to avoid a direct question asked of me. I didn't disagree with you when you said he's on some people's, yet you then felt the need to name more when I asked YOU directly if he's on yours. I ask again, and you name more people who have him on the list. So I'll try for a fourth time, IS GENE TUNNEY IN YOUR TOP TEN HW's of All Time? Let me guess, you'll cite for me more list that's he's on... amirite?

Dempsey ultimately has a say so, he's the fighter bringing in the bucks for the guys making the fights. You act like he's totally out of the whole process and can only fight who the promoter selects. He has no conversations or input in that decision at all, and I don't believe that for one second. Regardless, even if we take your theory on this at face value, that Rickard, by proxy, is speaking for Dempsey. If you're claiming he has sole control, cool, then he's speaking for Dempsey on who he sees as the easier victory, and again, my point still stands as stated. They viewed Tunney as an easier fight that other fights. If we take the view that Dempsey has some input, then, we're left with the same logical inference based on their actions correct?

 

Are you dense? Dempsey did NOT avoid Wills. This has been disproven COUNTLESS times. The onus is on you to educate yourself on the matter.

He didn't avoid Greb either. Could you imagine if he did fight Greb? He would have flattened him and then you would be on here detracting from him even more saying his best win is over a middleweight. Dempsey's manager and promoter had pretty much full control over who they put him in the ring with and their goal first and foremost was to make as much money as possible.

You're ignorant.

 

Sounds like you are the one who needs education.

So, Jack fought the guy that Greb beat in an elimination bout rather than fight Greb? Do you really want to rationalize that one on us? Give me a minute, got some corn to pop.

 

He didn't avoid Greb either. Could you imagine if he did fight Greb? He would have flattened him and then you would be on here detracting from him even more saying his best win is over a middleweight. Dempsey's manager and promoter had pretty much full control over who they put him in the ring with and their goal first and foremost was to make as much money as possible.