Fedor (2003-2005) vs Jones (2011-2013)

It isn't MMAMath. That's if A beat B but B beats C then A beats C is a guarantee you utter mong.

Fact is, Fedor had a better guard than Belfort, better sweeps, quicker reflexes, nastier subs. Better at everything.

I think Jones would beat Hendo if that disproves your assumption about me.

Fedor was in the Americana for longer but at no point was he in as much danger as Jones was against Belfort. A smaller guy than Jones by the way, whereas Hunt outweighed Fedor by a fair amount.

 

I think you're sorely mistaken with a lot of what you're saying with respect to wrestling and Coleman and Randleman in particular.

Coleman is not as technically sound a wrestler as any of the three I mentioned above. He's not even that much bigger than them so his supposed strength advantage (if he even has one) would mean nothing if his technique is lacking. He would be the one seemingly being overpowered. Really, your argument of strength is a ridiculous one as any experienced grappler will tell you that strength, while a factor, is not nearly as important as technique and Coleman or Randleman simply don't match up.

And we have no reason to think that at least 3 of them were at anything but the top of their game unless you define peak like many of the dummies here do: you're out of your peak when you start losing. Which is stupidity because maybe they are at their peak but simply aren't good enough with respect to the other fighter(s).

And I have doubts that Fedor would beat all 5 of the guys that Jones did and I am nearly certain that he wouldn't do it as easily. And I do note that you haven't particularly disputed anything with respect to several of my core arguments which is pretty telling as they really do paint a more complete picture. Jones has been far more dominant over much superior competition and despite facing better competition has been put in only one "dangerous" position. One. Fedor, while facing lesser competition, can not even come close to making that same claim. He has not been, nor has he ever been, as dominant as Jones is now. Sorry, I like Fedor as much or more than the next guy, but reality is what it is no matter what I'd like it to be and reality and evidence tells us that Jones is showing he is the superior fighter in every regard except for maybe one: coming back from adversity. Problem with that one is that no one has been able to put him there because he is that good and we have no reason to think he'd wilt under pressure. None whatsoever.

 

Hunt almost submitted him twice in one round and Hunt isn't exactly a stellar grappler while Vitor has been a BJJ Black Belt for years.

I didn't say you said because A beat B, etc. You said Vitor almost submitted Jones and Fedor has better grappling than Vitor so Fedor would submit Jones.

My counter was, "Okay, let's take your exact reasoning and apply it to a different line of logic: Hunt almost submitted Fedor and Jones is clearly a better grappler than Hunt so Jones would submit Fedor."

Your line of reasoning is poor as I demonstrate. Less ad hominem, more valid argument.

 

You talk like what you are saying is fact, when its all just your opinion, i don't agree with 90% of what you are saying, and i think fedor would beat jones. None of the stuff you have come back with is anything other than conjuncture, the bits i am pointing out are things that have happened at appropriate times.
The only thing i am interested in is which of the fighters jones fought you think beat fedor?

 

Machida would most likely decision/frustrate Fedor.

Evans would be a fair shot to win.

I'd favor Fedor over Rua, Jackson and slightly over Vitor.

I talk like I have the evidence on my side, because I do. This is not merely subjective nonsense. Objectively we can state exactly what I said above: Jones has been far more dominate now than Fedor has been at any point in his whole career. This isn't a knock on Fedor, no one outside of GSP/Anderson can touch that claim and GSP has been rocked as of late and Anderson has been dominated to only come back to win. Jones has only been in something resembling danger once in his entire UFC career (and probably his Professional MMA career).

Like I said, I live in reality and base what I think off of the available evidence and all of the evidence is in favor of Jones but also the evidence says that Fedor should never be counted out but that he isn't as dominant as a few other fighters have shown themselves to be.

 

Not trolling, serious question. Got to admit I've only seen say Jones's last 3 or 4 fights, so am not really that familiar with him.

Fedor looked comfortable striking on his feet. I can't really say that about Jones. How good is Jones's striking when he's on his feet standing up? :think

 

In terms of what you are saying about the fighters giving fedor hard fights or beating him, what evidence or anything have you go to back it up. You keep speaking like you have some so why not reveal it?
Jones has been more dominant against opponents he is basically bigger than, he has shown alot of skill and technique but thats with him always at an advantage. Fedor beat the best fighters in the world at any weight not ones he had a size advantage over. He dominated a peak nog who is alot better than the guys jones has beat especially at the times of victory.
I don;t think jones would beat a peak nog at this point in his career and certainly not dominate him.

 

Yes because Randleman was every inch the fighter Jon Jones was back in the day huh? atsch

 

Stop playing games Boran you ****er, its clear his MT is getting better rapidly.

 

Good enough that with the exception of the one round that he took to figure Machida out, he has pretty much brutalized everyone with it. :good

His technique is very loose and sloppy, as he is a striking noob. However he seems to have a natural grasp of distance and how to use his insane reach advantage. He is so confident with regularly committing to brutal strikes, particularly elbows, that his opponents go into a shell and have a hard time getting through his reach to strike him first. He is also active with push kicks to maintain his preferred distance.

When he backs someone to the cage he fights like a calculated wild man. He stays calm and picks his shots, but he likes to throw spinning elbows, flying knees, flashy attacks. Again, he seems to put a fear into his opponents, so that most of them end up just covering up as a default position. Anyone who attacks him he has easily beaten down while taking almost no shots in return. He is a brutal striker - you always get the sense that a vicious, fight-ending elbow or knee is about to launch.

You would not be impressed with his technique, but it is effective. If he wants to avoid an exchange he retreats in a straight line with his hands stretched out in front of him - but nobody can pursue him through that monster reach without running into the elbows.

So his striking is hard to judge. It is not going to impress an experienced Muay Thai man. But it reduces world-class MMA opponents to ineffective punching bags. The reach advantage and confidence coupled with the natural fighting talent is too much for them to overcome. And his striking is tightening up fight by fight. :good

:hat

 

Fedor KO1 :smooch

 

I knew someone would misinterpret what i meant.
I didnt mean to compare Randleman to Jones.
What i was trying to say is i could see the fight Jones/Fedor going the same way as Fedor/Randleman

 

So the stuff that I did not claim was objective you're saying I was saying was objective? Yet ignore the facts that are plain as day objective. Interesting.

Jones has been more dominant against fighters that he's taller than.

This goes back to the nonsense about he was always disadvantaged because he was smaller, which he wasn't in every single fight. Yes, he was at times smaller but it's a trade off and one he knew and you should know but plainly do not given you repeatedly keep bringing it up despite my having said it already. He traded having the size disadvantage for having a sizable speed advantage as well as heavyweights, in general, being less technically proficient. This is, of course, a good accomplishment but not as impressive as people trumpet it to be.

You don't think, great. Sorry but you get to take the fighters and claim their peak as being when you want them to be (aka, when they're winning)? Convenient.

 

I was gonna' lend kudos to James23's riposte to me unt I saw he thought Machida might beat Fedor. Now I cannot see any credibility in his comments, which is a shame.

 

This seems unlikely. Possible but unlikely.

I was asked a very clear question concerning which of the 5 consecutive former champions that Jones has beaten would I favor to win, not that I would say would win. Machida given his style of fighting and Fedor's relatively sloppy striking (please don't confuse what I just said to my meaning that Fedor has sloppy striking, he doesn't, but it simply isn't on the same sort of level of a highly technical striker such as Machida who also augments this with excellent grappling skills both in the clinch and on the ground) relative to Machida's it lends itself credibility to think that Machida would be a difficult fight for Fedor or for anyone.

Evans would be the other whom I think would have a better than 50% chance to decision Fedor with an even smaller chance to finish the fight. (While also noting that it could possibly go the other way)

I'd favor Fedor (slightly in some but more in others) over the remaining three. However what I would not say is that Fedor would look nearly as impressive against them as Jon has. We simply have no reason to think this is the case.

This was my answer to his question. It was clear and reasonable considering the context of the question.

Although I will give you kudos of sorts for sort of half admitting the fault in your reasoning above. Unlike most others here I will give credit to people for admitting when they made a fault in their reasoning or just for admitting a mistake and that they were wrong as opposed to digging in and refusing to admit it.