Fedor wasnt knocked out-Herb Dean's premature stoppage robbery-Dana compliments Heb

Fedor would never beat Reid, he's clearly overrated and never fought anyone as evolved as Reid in his PRIDE days. I wish all you Fedor fans would accept this, Ive only seen his last 4 fights and it's clear he's not the GOAT. I mean, there's no way a guy with 36 fights can be declining physically, he's only 34. He's obviously proved nothing in his career, and you are all a bunch a fan boys, even though you've probably followed his entire career. And even though only 3 fans in this thread disagree with this, Im going to act like a smart ass and repeat the same points add nauseam

Now Im bored of all you idiots who have no grasp of reality. Im off to the Lounge to start an intelligent debate on Evolution, I'll get more answers there
:hat

 

I agree man

 

I repeat myself because nobody seems to get the ****ing point. :bart

First of all, I don't question the triumphs of most of his career. And I don't dispute his place in the top 3 mixed martial artists ever.

All I question is his status as THE NUMBER ONE of ALL TIME across ALL DIVISIONS and NO OTHER fighter can HOPE TO CHALLENGE HIM as THE GREATEST OF ALL. I just wonder why his repeated stoppage losses in fights that he should have won mean nothing when discussing his overall career. Like, they mean absolutely nothing at all.

Who can honestly say that against Werdum and Henderson, Fedor's physical abilities had diminished to the extent that his body would no longer permit him to defeat top-level competition? Honestly? :huh

:hat

 

Here's a scenario for you.

Take a fighter like Chris Leben, at his current stage in his career. He fights a smaller, older opponent. He starts the fight by throwing wild punches with knockout power, with little or no regard to defence. His opponent traps him against the cage, where Leben looks confused and uninterested, and is completely neutralized for the next minute or so.

After a while, his opponent decides to let him away from being pressed up against the cage. So Leben throws more fast, powerful punches, and knocks his opponent down heavily. Leben smells blood, and gets so excited that he just leaps right at his heavily-shaken opponent, bouncing several solid punches off the guy's skull but completely neglecting to even establish a base.

But the opponent is tough and skilled, and after a few seconds he recovers enough to defend himself intelligently. Because Leben has neglected all his technique and is just swinging wildly and not even thinking about any form of defence, Leben overbalances and his opponent takes his back and KOs him with a punch that he never even saw being thrown.

Now, the questions are:

1) How sympathetic a reception does Chris Leben get on this forum for that performance? Do people make any excuses for him?

and

2) Shouldn't we expect more from the GOAT than we do from Chris Leben?

:good

:hat

 

We get it man, it's very easy to dismiss the loses as him being physically ''shot'' when that's clearly not the case. I think it's a motivational problem primarily, for one thing he seemed to want to retire in the cage after the Bigfoot loss. Now he made a mistake going in for the kill in the Werdum fight, fought a MUCH bigger guy in the Silva fight, and seemed disinterested by the time the Hendo fight came along. But I do think the best version of Fedor would only really be troubled by Antonio, as he has size and skill.

It's an accumulation of these events that led to the holes in his skill set being exposed, which were always present if you are familiar with his fights. And by the time GSP and Anderson retire, they will have a claim to being the GOAT as well. But as it stands I dont think anyone's quite achieved what Fedor did.

Good enough?

 

I agree. That's why I never mention the Bigfoot fight. Because I think that physically that was a bridge too far no matter what, and probably would have been in his prime as well.

I think that the Werdum loss came because Fedor was overconfident and sloppy. In my opinion, losing a fight by stoppage because of overconfidence and sloppiness hurts your legacy.

I think that Bigfoot was just far too much of a huge, tough, powerful, skillful monster for him to handle. I don't mark Fedor down for this loss. Frankly I don't see how he could ever have avoided it.

Henderson I agree that he was bored. But it was worse than just seeming bored with being a professional athlete. Before, after and DURING the fight, he seemed like he didn't even give a ****. I cannot accept the GOAT having the chance to put a fellow ATG on his resume, and seeming utterly indifferent to the result even in the first minute of the first round. :-(

Great. This post is MUCH better than pretty much every other response in the thread, which basically tend to be either "You suck" or "Fedor's multiple losses are not part of his career IDIOT, he used to look much better than this in fights he won" or a combination of both.

What it comes down to is, I just hate how Fedor's reputation is such that he is judged by completely different standards than other fighters. That is, anything that reflects badly on him does not count and might as well have never happened.

:hat

 

Bottom line is Haggis, TS is an idiot.

Here's member's of this forum arguing with him 6 months ago on the same points you are bringing up here

[url]http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=279336&highlight=GSP+resume[/url]

My point is with you bringing the same point up is, it's fruitless arguing as these guys are obviously on the same type of hero worship trip as guys who claim that Bruce Lee is the greatest MMA fighter ever

But as it stands, for me personally Fedor is the GOAT. Now you look back at his record are indeed there are holes in his resume, and he probably wont be the GOAT forever. But the man was fighting as the arse end of the NHB era, and the mentality was completely different in terms of what it takes to win a fight today. He spent the majority of his career where the guys were looking to literally take your head off, and rules like stomps and soccer kicks were legal.

You had to go in for the kill or the other guy could potentially use your head like a football if you made 1 mistake. Guys these days are fighting with the mentality that the least they have to do is win 8 minutes of a 15 minute fight. Now this has hurt GSP in terms of being fan friendly as he seems content to fight the clock these days. It has also hurt Fedor, as guys like Werdum and Hendo have capitalised on his desire to end a fight ASAP.

That to me is the fundamental difference between the days of kill or be killed between 2001-2005 and modern MMA which is now simply a sport

 

This is EXACTLY where you are wrong.

The reason Jones became shot so quick is because of his exceptional speed and reflexes. He was so much faster than everyone else he faced that he became dependant on it. He didn't know anything else. Once he came back to the pack in that department, he couldn't compete because his flaws became too apparent and he didn't know how to prevent them from being exploited. He had always had these flaws, but he was such a phenominal athlete that they were masked for his entire career. He never had to learn to work around his flaws, so he couldn't do it.

Someone like Glen Johnson, however, didn't rely on being faster and stronger. He relied on learning the craft. Which is why a 40 year old Glen Johnson can beat contenders who are younger, quicker and stronger than him. Because Johnson knows all the tricks and can use them.

So in that respect, yes, Glen Johson is a better FIGHTER than Roy Jones Junior. He has more knowledge of the fighter's craft. But Roy Jones Junior in his prime was by FAR a better ATHLETE than Glen Johnson, and prime Jones beats prime Johnson with ease in a boxing match.

On his best day, Jones is a NIGHTMARE for anyone in his prime weight divisions. But in his overall career, Jones is nothing in terms of GOAT status, because he pissed most of his career away fighting part-timers and he had zero ability to overcome physical disadvantages. The truly great ones need at least one big past-prime win, being physically outmatched and still winning is important.

:hat

 

Fedor is one of the greatest of all times but in 10 years he would be remembered no more than Dan Henderson for what he did to the sport. Thats just the reality of it.

I would even say that, while he may still crack the top 10 "ATG lists" in 10 years he wouldnt rank as high as GSP, Silva or maybe even BJ if he beats Condit.

 

You make it sound like Hendo is some slouch. Hes older, smaller and perhaps more battle worn than Fedor and he still smashed him H2H. Take that however you want but that has to count for something.

If you intended to be sarcastic, you should have stated Fedor would never be as good as Werdum or Gonzaga.

 

This proved what none of us ever suspected Jake Shields > Fedor

 

LOL That's like comparing a drag car to a Hearse. Both will get you where you are doing, but the drag car may crash and burn on the way. Hendo was clearly weight drained