Fedor wasnt knocked out-Herb Dean's premature stoppage robbery-Dana compliments Heb

You sound like a real expert on his career there. You're definitely justified in making sweeping, damning judgements on his abilities. :rofl

 

I mean Zab Judah who lost almost all of the big fights he's ever had.

He had extremely fast hands, fast feet, great reflexes, and excellent power... the four attributes that you have continually implied that made Jones great.

Clearly, Jones had more than this, since this was not enough to make Judah anywhere near as great as Jones was in the ring.

 

Fedor's tactics let him down against Werdum, he made a mistake that he'd never have made at his fighting peak. This is proven by how long he spent in Nogueira's guard without slipping up when he was at his physical and mental zenith.

Fedor's punch resistance was very obviously radically declined by the Henderson fight. Perhaps the punishment he took in the Silva fight had a lot to do with that. No way in hell does a prime Fedor get sparked out temporarily by one punch thrown with no leverage by a 207lbs man, no way in hell. Again, the proof is to be found in video evidence of fights from his peak, where he absorbed harder, better punches without suffering that type of reaction.

 

This invite is still open to Haggis, despite his apparent lack of interest in it on the last page:

 

Translation:

You now know and admit you were wrong to say the only things Jones had were fast hands, fast feet, good reflexes and good power.

:smoke

 

We find the GOAT by evaluating the work he did across his whole career.

No-one says Ray Robinson isn't the GOAT in boxing because he lost to nobodies like Stan Harrington, Fred Hernandez and Memo Ayon long after his prime years had been and gone.

Those losses are massively outweighed by the fact that Robinson went undefeated from 1943 to 1951 (his loss in 1943 was when he was 144lbs and fought a 160lbs Jake LaMotta, a loss he avenged multiple times), and by the time he started to lose fights in the 50s had amassed an incredible 128-1-2 record, beating many fighters who were superior to those he would later lose to, ATG opponents like Kid Gavilan and Jake LaMotta.

It's the same situation with Fedor. His later career losses are massively outweighed by the fact that Emelianenko went undefeated from 2000 to 2010 (his loss in 2000 being on account of an accidental cut), and by the time he started to lose fights in the 2010s had amassed a (by MMA standards) magnificent 31-1 record, beating fighters who were superior to those he would later lose to, ATG opponents like Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira and Mirko Crocop.


It's about evaluating what someone did across their whole careers, not giving extra weight to wins or losses that occurred near the end. Joe Calzaghe ended his career undefeated at the age of 38, and Sugar Ray Leonard ended his career by getting beaten down by Terry Norris at the age of 35 and stopped by a past-prime Hector Camacho at the age of 40.

Is Calzaghe a superior fighter to Ray Leonard? Obviously, obviously, OBVIOUSLY not, the very idea is insane, because if you evaluate their whole careers Leonard was vastly, vastly superior.

This isn't rocket science tbh. :good

 

Yawn. I mean when he never got submitted by Nogueira ever, and went undefeated against him in three fights.

 

You people just hear someone saying something once and immediately take it to heart and believe it utterly, I think.

To say Jones had no fundamentals is a myth, and is totally unjustified. Stop parrotting things you have heard and which sound feasible, and just watch fights and make up your own mind.

Roy Jones was an Olympic silver medallist that we all know should have been an Olympic gold medal. His style may have been unorthodox, but he had a superb skillset, being unorthodox doesn't mean you don't possess fundamentals. Someone like Naseem Hamed had no fundamentals, because he had no defence, no jab, and (IMO) poor ring IQ and instincts. Jones could jab, box on the outside, fight off the ropes and on the inside, and adapt in the ring.

When James Toney met Michael Nunn, he met a superb boxer who was faster than him in pretty much every way, and after a while he figured Nunn out and cracked that suspect chin. When James Toney met Roy Jones, he met a superb boxer who has faster than him in pretty much every way, and barely laid a glove on him all night.

Also, we have no evidence to support that Jones had a weak chin through his prime, because any time he was hit cleanly, he took it well. I firmly believe that the radical changes in weight coupled with age took away his punch resistance by the time of his second stint at lightheavyweight. He took punches earlier in his career without reacting like he did vs Tarver and Johnson, but of course you'd have needed to actually watch a lot of his early career fights to know this. All the Eddie Futch wannabes on this forum do not seem to have done so, despite their sweeping, damning indictments of fighters' careers and abilities. :-(

 

Obviously I wouldn't phrase it in such a dated, troll-like way, but yes I believe Fedor's punch resistance has declined radically over the last couple of years. I cannot explain this, because all fighters age/decline at their own rates, but the beatdown from Bigfoot cannot have helped. That's the kind of punishment that ages and weakens you, IMO.

 

A re-post of a post from a long time ago for Haggis and Metal:

When Jones declined post-2003/4, it wasn't only his punch resistance that went, it was every single physical facet of his make-up.

Watch Tarver vs Jones III. Jones fights like himself for ONE ROUND of the fight, and you can see that on his way back to his stool he is utterly exhausted, after fighting only one round like he could fight the whole 12 only a couple of years earlier. (there is a youtube video of the round in question which clearly shows this, track it down)

If only one attribute of Jones's had slipped, he'd probably have been able to stay at or near the top, but everything slipped, and slipped badly. By the time of the Calzaghe fight, Joe's handspeed was better than Roy's and he looked noticeably physically stronger than Roy. The very idea that this would've been the case had Joe fought the Roy of even 2002 is ridiculous, because at that time Roy was bullying, dazzling and beating down top lightheavyweights.

If any fighter suffers radically declined speed, power, strength and stamina, then any fighter is going to struggle, and struggle woefully, no matter how good his fundamentals are. :deal