Feelings on Marciano vs Louis??

mcvey, You ask me a question,I answer it and you accuse me of going off track.
Like I said you should review your posts, I tried to remind you how many times that we should try sticking to the subject?
maybe cos you went off track, with that pic

No where have I ever said prime Louis did not have power in both hands .

Again we are not talking about a "prime" Joe Louis, we are talking about the Louis of the Marciano fight. The prime Louis has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. You keep bringing him up. why?

What I stated categorically was his biggest punch was his right cross .Let us be clear .ARE YOU NOW DENYING THIS IS THE CASE?

OMG, the visual is plain but I guess maybe cos your eyes and brain are not the same as 10, 20, 30 yrs ago. Since actual boxing seems to be your weakness if you dont have articles to tell you what to think, I will explain.

Let me again ask what is this revelation? That a right handed fighter's most powerful punch is going to be his back hand, and that is his right hand. This is common knowledge, throughout boxing history from bare knuckle til now right handed fighter's power hand is the right hand, so what is the revelation?

As always you're looking for something you can latch on too. "Duh, Louis bestest power punch was his right hand". But Louis, I've explained again and again, and will explain again. Louis was not just a right hand puncher, please dispute that?

Louis had a great trainer, who taught him to use both hands, and he retained that ability til his final fight. Why not talk about that? That is a factor, Louis had power in both hands, dispute that. He used both hands in every fight including the Marciano fight. Which is something you who have practiced for 20 yrs should know. But in your nitpicking ways, come back with "I didnt see one right cross". Is that a revelation?

Boxing 101

-in order for you to throw an effective right cross, you need distance, you cant throw a right cross effectively if you are in close quarters as Louis was most of the fight.

-When a fighter is being crowded, he is not in his comfort zone, if he needs punching room.

-Louis tactic was use the jab, to maintain distance which he did.

-Marciano bulled his way in, preventing Louis from keeping his distance. You see not hard it just takes a little basic boxing knowledge,

-one fighter wants to keep the fight at his punching distance, the other fighter will seek to close the distance which is exactly what Rocky did.

-Fights, which should be be obvious to you are a series of moves and counter moves.

-Louis needed to catch Marciano coming in, he couldnt why?

-Like most fighters who are in their twilight yrs they dont have the reflexes to take advantage of openings.

-Louis, as he stated, saw openings but could not do anything about them.

-Fighters at that age make adjustments to stay in the game, and Louis did.

-Louis did what he could with what he had.


Once agin you asked why his friends did not contribute to his debt?

Did you miss the part where I said, "somebody should have been advised about his taxes and how important it was to pay them."

I gave you the answer, because it was over a MILLION DOLLARS! WITH PENALTY FESS RUNNING AT $100,000 ANNUALLY!
Now who's fault is that?

Every subsequent fight he had he had to pay additional tax on,so however noble and honest his intentions he was getting NOWHERE!

Is that a relelation to you? Louis was stuck in quick sand the more he struggled the more he sank.

I explained to you previously that because he twice defended his heavyweight title FOR FREE and because of his war work in raising morale and untold $$$$ inWar Bonds

Who told you tax collectors anywhere in the world are going to listen to your sob stories and say, "dang we didnt know you did all that, you know what forget what you owe."

Now that is pure fantasy, tax dont want to know nothing except you owe, you pay.

You who keeps his money offshore, knows that.

I felt the Us Government should have wiped his debt, or at least been more sympathetic to his situation.You obviously disagree!

What you or I feel is irrelevant, any gov't in the world, wants their money, and will seek any means to collect it. It's funny cos you used this excuse to post the pic, "American Hero" and you say it was done innocently, what a load.

I've told you in my last post that I used to tape the fights I went to see live, to re-watch the next day and as often as I subsequently wished, so your point is no point at all, and I had the additional benefit of having seen the live fight from ringside!
Please explain what your point is then by saying that? Jeez everybody does that nowadays. My point was and still is cos you said I was a youtuber, like that was something bad, that you can see things from a tape that you might not have caught at ringside. So in essence you are agreeing with me, so you saying you were at ringside really means nothing.


You are saying categorically that all those scribes his two managers and his trainer are wrong and that you are right!
You see you seem to misinterpret in your favor what was said, I never said that I was right and they were wrong. I said you have to take whatever is written or said, should be taken with a grain of salt, you do understand what that means right?

This is supreme arrogance and just about as ignorant a post as I have seen here!
Oh the outrage, you are such a drama queen, re-read some of my previous posts, I tend to read something and draw my own conclusions, unlike you who read every article as if it was written in stone, I question, you should too.

You of all people should never use the term OPEN MIND because yours is closed.
Why cos I question things, when you have an open mind you take in all the info and make up your own mind, it doesnt mean that your mind is open to every piece of information, and you parrot what you took in, you at some point has to use what God gave you to think about what you are taking in and to draw your own conclusions.

It is closed to all the opinions of the experts that actually saw Louis up close and personal.
You see maybe you have to do that, to be told what you can easily see for yourself. I dont, I use my own eyes and my understanding of boxing and draw my own conclusions. Boxing is boxing, there is no mystery if there is tape of the fight which in this case there is. I can guarantee you people at ringside and up close and personal were watching the same fight, but I have the advantage of stop action, rewind, fast forward and slo-mo to see things that " the experts that actually saw Louis up close and personal." didnt see.


It is closed to the opinon of those that managed him, and it is closed to the opinion of his trainer who trained him for those comeback fights!
Not really.
What did they say? That he shouldnt have fought? But he did fight, so apparently Louis thought otherwise, and he did fight, so your point was that he shouldnt have fought, like you said Woodcock your drinking buddy, shouldnt have fought. Well bottomline is they did fight. And we should deal with that, that other stuff, is a moot point, something like I shoulda, done this, I shoulda done that.

Louis himself said he could no longer pull the trigger, God Almighty, he made enough quotes saying that!
The Walcott fight was 3 and a half years earlier! Do you actually get that!

Maybe you dont understand, no matter what he said or thought he fought, knowing all these things, that he saw openings
and he couldnt pull the trigger. This must come as a revelation to you, but an older fighter makes adjustments to his style to compensate what he might not have at the time.

"Had power but couldn't pull the trigger" This is the same as a gun with no bullets! When will you actually see this?

Here again is a not very insightful statement, he might not have had the reflexes but he still had power, to do damage.

 

Once again please don't presume to tell me about the merits of Bruce WoodCock I met the man, and have seen and am far more familiar with his abilities that you.

Please how many fights of his did you sit at ringside? I will tell you, none you have the same view I have of his fights. I dont have to sit a listen to a guy to draw my own conclusions. I know for a fact that he was highly thought of by the Brit's at the time. Tell me since you know so much, why was the Woodcock - Savold fight decreeded a fight for the vacant HW title? I didnt have to sit with the guy to know that. I also didnt have to talk to the guy about the titles he won it's knowledge anybody can see for themselves. He was the champion of a big chunk of the world, but you must know that cos I do. That he had a bad eye, well he must've known that before he fought and still fought so it's not an excuse.

The BBBOC recognized the winner as Champion no on else in the f*****g world did!

You must know, nobody cared, but you missed the point the BBBOC, Britain said the fight was for the vacant title. Nobody said anything different. Louis after he beat Savold didnt go around saying that he was now the HW champion. BTW, in the 1950 annual Ring rankings Louis was #1 and Savold #2. But of course that means nothing, your brilliant observation that he retired 1 fight later is a moot point, he was at an advance age himself 36 going on 37.

If you need to shore up your argument by saying Savold split a pair of fights with old Brucey and then at 36 was wiped by Louis then you're making bricks without cement!

Jeez, I didnt have to shore up anything, it was what it was and decreed by others I had nothing to do with it. Savold was highly ranked at the time thats all I need to know.

Boy, you are something did you call Bruce, Brucie to his face?

Now Mr You Tube. I challenge you to name 6 fights you've seen live from ringside!
I have seen many more fights then 6, I saw up close and personal.
Eric Morales vs Jesus Chavez
Floyd Mayweather vs Jesus Chavez
Carlos "Famoso" Hernandez vs Floyd Mayweather
Carlos "Famoso" Hernandez vs Jesus Chavez
Alexis Arguello vs Bobby Chacon
Lupe Pintor vs Johnny Owens
Are you happy now I have also seen Ruben Olivares, Carlos Zarate, Muhamad Ali, Roberto Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard, Larry Holmes, Wilfredo Gomez, Earnie shavers that should be enough for now. Like I said if you only knew.

Thank you for leaving the door open I really and truly love this.

 

Quack, quackidy, quack haha too funny you really have drowned so stop reaching. As you can see or maybe not, I have answered every single statement you've made in each and every post you've made?

 

yes like you for instance.

 

What most old fighters lose is not power but the ability to put it across with snap and that my fine tea drinking friend is a fact, but this is something you should already know from your 20 yrs of practice. Were you the same as when you started, I think not. Using the jab is called making adjustments for an older fighter.

 

Do you know something.I don't believe you. How old are you?

 

Dempsey manages/promotes fighters and has been hanging out at Big Bear with Abels fighters for like a year or something.

 

And that means?

 

That he's believable.

 

Maybe.

 

He has a mega thread where he takes his personal time out to help anyone/everyone who has questions about the boxing business or needs advice. He's probably helped hundreds of people.

I never told him this but I took his advice on which gym to go to. Because of him I'm at a great gym with pros and a world class trainer who is incredibly good at what he does.

When it comes to Dempsey talking about his personal experience, I wouldn't doubt him.

 

That's quite alright, believe or dont you asked I answered. I will give you a hint, I was old enough to sit next to Mickey Duff in the Pintor fight.

 

This guy cant be convinced he wont even open his eyes unless it's an article that tells him to open his eyes

 

Whether or not Louis had the ability to bang Rocky is immaterial for me.

Rocky fought the most cautious fight we have on film.

It proved he wouldn't just be a wrecking ball against someone he respected the power of.

 

The ability to deliver that power. I have no argument with this since it gives the same ultimate result.
ie NO POWER ARRIVING ON TARGET!