Felix Cash vs Austin Williams - June 10 // London

I completely agree ref social media hype and one of the main reasons we have been having this ridiculous debate.

 

Vitali had very little KO/KD power for his size. I don't think Lewis had a "glass chin" but that was a frequent claim in the 90's and it was certainly suspect. He got KO'd by fringe contenders, guys who would be fringe contenders at best in this era. He fought zero southpaws. Went the distance plenty of times, found himself nip and tuck (Mercer) or down on the cards (Bruno, Vitali) in big fights. Had Lewis fought murderous KO punchers in his career four times away from home, those who weren't fat and inactive or near losing to a Danny Williams and 5'9/5'10, he'd have likely been KO'd another few times.

Rahman 2 was one of his top 3 wins but where was the confidence against former 190 pounder, 3 loss, Bowe KO victim 3.5-4 years prior Holyfield x2? (a far better opponent than Rahman in a much higher profile undisputed fight but still completely physically overmatched against a prime SHW with a huge power advantage, and tactically overmatched as Lewis's current trainer was his ex-trainer). Yet Lewis was begging to get robbed again because he didn't feel he could stop Holyfield, at least not without taking a serious risk of getting KO'd.

"People are just more easily pleased/impressed in this barren era with social media hype etc."

The Mike Tyson phenomenon shows that boxing fans were dumber/more naïve back then. 42/1 favourite over Douglas, gets thrashed, went to prison for 4 years, comes out and runs through some no-hopers, opens as 25-1 against Holyfield, gets thrashed again, opens as 2-1 in the Holyfield rematch! It was practically a religion.

 

Getting caught happens when you're fighting more regularly, against all the top contenders, clearing out the division mate. Lennox retired at 37 with 10 more fights than 34 year old fury currently has. I'm guessing fury only has 2/3 more bouts MAX. And if he fought that regularly he probably would get chinned once or twice.

 

Fury usyk off again.

Can you imagine lennox carrying on like this? He'd have dealt with usyk and left no doubt. Thats the difference.

 

"against all the top contenders"

McCall was a 5/1 underdog (against an unproven Lewis, so it gives you an idea the low regard McCall was held in) and Rahman was a 20/1 underdog. Lewis was especially susceptible to one-punch KO's: no other reigning heavyweight champion has been one-punch KO'd twice. Fury is not susceptible to them, hence he's been 4 fights with Wlad and Wilder (more dangerous punchers than anyone Lewis ever fought by a margin) away from home, as the B-side and 3 out of 4 times as the underdog and not been beaten once.

"And if he fought that regularly he probably would get chinned once or twice."

Wlad had 69 fights: 25 more than Lewis and fought to the age of 41. By your own logic, how many extra defeats would Lewis have had if he had fought that regularly and that long?

Fury doesn't need to make a load more average defences (although I suspect there's one against former unified champ Ruiz coming up), it's the big fights that count for far more.

 

Felix Cash is fighting on April 1st, just thought I'd mention that in this thread, a thread about Felix Cash fighting in just over a weeks time.

 

Yep 100%

 

"Wlad had 69 fights: 25 more than Lewis and fought to the age of 41. By your own logic, how many extra defeats would Lewis have had if he had fought that regularly and that long?"
A couple, that's my whole ****ing point ha!!

Bookies odds are pointless, the point is he cleaned out the division and left no doubt who the man was. Fury retires now and there's always an argument he wasn't the man. History will not look kindly on him I promise you.

 

"Bookies odds are pointless"

They're not perfect but they aren't irrelevant either. 10/1 underdogs do lose 90-odd percent of the time.

"he cleaned out the division and left no doubt who the man was"

Eventually yes but he also had some serious problems along the way, problems that those at the time believed precluded him from being a "true great". 20 years later people think very differently. Larry Holmes is similar, @Dubblechin eloquently laid out how Holmes was not regarded as a great in his time and how it completely changed many years after his reign.

"Fury retires now and there's always an argument he wasn't the man. History will not look kindly on him I promise you."

If he retired now I agree with you, it would be a terrible look. But I don't think there's much chance of that happening.

 

The Fury shambles of the last couple of days have made all your posts on Fury being an ATG this week (that we have debated with you, that he clearly isn’t) have you made you look a right tit I’m afraid.

That said opinions are interesting in boxing and this is a forum, so have a good weekend mate.

 

Furys whole resumè will hinge on what wilder does now. If wilder goes on to do **** all else then them wins of furys won't look very good. If he goes on to spark usyk and Joshua they will look very good.

Like when Joe calzaghe scraped past a 43 year old Hopkins he was slagged for it. Then Hopkins goes on to do great things at 50 years old and Joe's wins are elevated.

Time will tell.

 

"Furys whole resumè will hinge on what wilder does now"

Assuming Fury retires, which is a massive assumption.

But Wilder would have a strong claim to king of the era in that case, many would argue that Fury picked up his ball and went home and Fury was merely undisputed champ Wilder's bogeyman.

 

You're thinking in the present, I'm looking at the past and the future.

And you're hypocritical or at least inconsistent considering you've said that Fury is "crap" compared to Bowe, who couldn't be a great fighter by your apparent standards (never fought Lewis).

 

Dunno about that mate but as I said only time will tell. Hopefully they stop arsing around and all fight each other. Fingers crossed eh..

 

Bowe beat Holyfield in one of the greatest heavyweight fights ever and the 10th round is seen as the greatest heavyweight round ever. That alone is better my miles than anything Fury has never done. Bowe would have murdered him.

Ref Lennox - if you didn’t know, he knocked out Bowe in 2 rounds in the Olympic final.

That's reason that Bowe never boxed him again.

Stop banging on about the biggest Fraud in heavyweight history, ducker Fury. You’re embarrassing yourself and it’s getting old.