Felix Trinidad vs Simon Brown At WW.

Toney had a great single win (Nunn>Spinks) and made up for his shocking light heavyweight tenure with the win over Jirov, and then used his pure talent and fighting ability to take on much bigger men as a fat guy.

Holyfield was old, Ruiz was controversial admittedly (Toney certainly isn't a poster boy for PED use of course) but even being competitive with a big guy like Peter (I felt Toney won the first fight) makes up for that. A top ten ranked fighter no less and middle to heavy is a far more impressive leap than light welter to (barely) light middle, and no competition up there to shout home about for Judah.

EDIT: The 147lb title lineage from Mayorga to Baldomir is horrific.

Toney and Judah's career paths aren't really comparable apart from patchiness. Zab was mentally, Toney was greedy.

EDIT: How was Judah a 'great' light welter?

 

Yeah Toney sucks and so does Judah. :hi:

 

I love James Toney. Is that what you got from my post? You're using the :hi: emoticon against me? Good luck pal.

 

Toney's best wins **** all over Judah's; Nunn, Barkley, Prince Charles Williams, Jirov.

In terms of talent displayed in close battles with elite technicians; Toney went tit for tat with Mike McCallum. Judah gave Floyd a tough first five rounds or so.

In terms of falling short against the best of their era; Toney made to look a level below against Jones, Judah makes the highlight reel getting starched by Tszyu (I guarantee you'll say 'he got to his feet' :|)

Past prime: Even as far back (a good few years back now) Judah tried to claim a victory over Clottey by pulling out with a cut. Im giving him the benefit of the doubt here and not using Khan as an example. I'll go post-Cotto to cut Zab some slack.

Toney, who could barely move, lasted the distance against Denis Lebedev, well more past his prime than Zab was even a couple of years ago.

As I say, a few similarities, I can see why you'd make the comparison, but Toney is so far superior to Judah in every department that it's not really that valid a comparison if you're trying to validate Judah's shortcomings.

 

Is that what you got from my post that Im comparing Judah and Toney? Both were very naturally talented fighters, it doesnt take much to know that, but both were also lazy under acheivers who had many ups and downs in their respective careers and lost to subpar opposition because of it. Thats where the similarity starts and ends.

Maybe you should go back and read my post.

And James Toney lost to Drake Thadzi in the middle of his prime. Cmon lets be honest Zudah was a great talent but like Toney he could be lazy and unfocused and look far from his best.

Reciting the history of the two fighters doesnt make you look any smarter either. :good

 

It's true to an extant but Toney was actually lazy and squandered a lot of his talent..whereas Zab just couldn't cut it at the top mentally.
Besides is soft chin he had it all physically, marvelously talented there..but his shortcomings in his noggin have shown up throughout his career.

Zab even in his biggest fights displayed questionable stamina and ticker...he never blew up to ridiculous weights or came in looking soft, which says to me he was probably still training and watching his diet.

Judah just couldn't beat very good fighters...he could blow out average fighters as good if not better than those very good fighters could but when push came to shove his mental game couldn't keep up with his physical game..A lot like Camacho when I think about it.

 

Judah at 35 is back fighting at 140. I think he could have stayed there and had more consistent success, but he did move up and win titles at 147 and fight bigger names. I think he was better than Tsyzu but overlooked him and paid the price. I dont think he prepared for Baldomir at all but still made the weight. Ultimately hes responsible for those losses and it effected him accordingly. I think he did have mental lapses in the gut department, but he was a very naturally skilled fighter and probably had no business fighting much higher than junior welter.

 

I think clearly he was a natural 140 pounder...I was so happy Tszyu knocked him off but really I often wonder what would have happened had Nady let it continue, which given the gravity of the fight he should of.

The way I see it is that if it only took Kostya less than 2 rounds to land a half decent shot that had Judah absolutely all over the place...it would only be a couple of more rounds before he did it again..Even if Judah ran and stunk the place out I don't see him having the discipline to outbox Kostya for the rest of the fight, if at all. That result would have been just as satisfying because it would indicate without doubt who the superior fighter was..as it stands now there is a worrying amount of people who consider that a lucky punch.

 

I dont think it was a lucky punch but I do think Judah came in too cocky and disrespectful. He got what he deserved and was certainly an unlike able character. He just didn't seem to learn from his mistakes.

 

Judah was one of the most naturally gifted 140ers out there. He was super-quick and he could punch. His only problem was his mental mentality.

 

He was a fighter with a hood mentality. He was undisciplined, and the people around him weren't disciplined either. He never learned how to be a good pro. Had he done that, he would have had a much better career and been more respected.

 

Where did I criticize you for criticizing???.......I criticized you for the unprovoked name calling and for being overtly emotional like a female.

 

How did Cotto get into a discussion between Brown and Trinidad :huh

I'd pick Trinidad to KO Brown late in a war

 

It happened because of a discussion about Maurice Blocker, and how some say could beat Cotto.

 

Again 'like a female' makes you sound utterly ******ed.

You criticised posters for elevating lesser fighters to a higher pedestal. Regardless of your reasons you appeared to do the same thing with Kelson Pinto. So make yourself more clear.

Admittedly you've been one of the most hilariously bad posters on here for hears so I expect nothing less from you.