Fenech v Nelson II...what happened there?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by fists of fury, May 21, 2012.


  1. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I watched both Fenech v Nelson fights again over the weekend (Not too concerned with that 3rd fight) and with both fights still fresh in my memory, it's quite bizarre in a way how different the outcomes were.

    First fight, both men absorbed some monster shots, but Fenech got the better of Nelson on the inside, and had Azumah against the ropes for long stretches in the fight. Although he got hit with dozens of hard shots, he took them without flinching and should have won a decision.
    There was a brief moment in the first round when Jeff's legs wobbled a little from a huge Nelson right hand, but other than that, he just tore into Nelson and never let up.

    Now, in the rematch, it was like watching a different fighter. He just never appeared all that confident, and didn't get at Nelson like he did in the first fight. He got dropped by a big shot in the first, and it seemed to sap some life out of him.
    But even before the knockdown, Fenech didn't seem as bull-like as before.

    I would have thought that fighting on home soil, with a big partisan crowd behind him and a thirst for revenge, Fenech would have walked through bombs and mortars to beat Nelson up, but he seemed strangely...hesistant.
    There were moments where he looked like the Fenech from the first fight, but those moments were fleeting.

    Now one could argue that it was a different Nelson the second time around; one that was too wise to get trapped along the ropes as he did in the first fight, but even so, I don't see any great adjustment that he made. I do see a strangely hesitant Fenech though.
    I don't buy the excuse that Nelson had Malaria in the first fight. He looked strong as hell and punched with authority, but just got outworked and outmuscled inside.
    He looked in great condition and was clearly very focussed for the rematch, but at championship level against a formidable opponent, that is expected. He looked just as determined in the first fight, and I doubt he took Fenech lightly in that fight either.

    So, what happened? I just can't seem to reconcile the results from the first and second fight...one would logically expect another bruising, draining war, one where the extra motivation of the robbery of the first fight would pull Fenech through, yet Nelson never looked in the least bit uncomfortable the second time around, and he hurt Fenech far more easily the second time around as well...something I don't think anyone could have expected.
     
  2. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Loyal Member banned

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    I remember the first fight Nelson said he had malaria or something. Either way the rematch was shocking. Fenech just did not have it. Everyone thought he would win since the first fight was I think a draw where he did not win his 4th belt in 4 divisions. Nelson just looked like he punched twice as hard in the rematch than the first match.
     
  3. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I just wonder if sometimes the burden of expectation becomes too much, and it messes with a fighter's head sometimes.

    After all, it's not like people were hoping he'd beat Nelson as in the first fight...he was expected to this time around, almost as if it were a foregone conclusion. I wonder if that doesn't affect a fighter sometimes.

    Sometimes fighting at home is the worst thing one could do...all those backslappers and well wishers, all those expectations...distractions in camp etc.
    For example, Brian Mitchell looked **** in non-title fights at home. He didn't perform to expectations. Yet, on the road, with his back against the wall, he looked so much better.
     
  4. Bollox

    Bollox Active Member Full Member

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    I was there that day and couldn't believe what I was seeing. Everyone expected Fenech to win and fair enough based on the first fight. It's well documented that Fenech was so distraught after being robbed first time round that it took some of the fire out of him. It's also well known that Fenech had been known to become over-confident and start acting like a moron. His trainer Johnny Lewis had kicked him out of the gym at least once (after he'd become champ) that I know of, telling him to come back if and when he decided to stop being a turd

    I'd say Fenech assumed he'd walk through Nelson and instead got the shock of his life when he didn't. Fenech was used to having almost everything his way and when he wasn't getting it, he became discouraged (hence the attempt to knee Nelson in the nuts). The 1st round kd was a heavy one and took some wind out of him which he never really got back
     
  5. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Props for watching it live!
    Sorry it didn't turn out as expected...and the weather didn't look like it was helping either. :D
    Just a shitty day for Aussie fans, I think. (Not an Aussie myself, but I can empathise.)
     
  6. Bollox

    Bollox Active Member Full Member

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    **** happens. At the time I refused to acknowledge the character faults that Fenech had but in hindsight there were a few. eg In the Carlos Zarate fight he thought he'd lost on a TKO due to a head clash that resulted in a cut, and was about to lay into Zarate after the fight was over. He simply didn't take too well to things not going his way
     
  7. zadfrak

    zadfrak Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I thought that was the bout Fenech lost his legs. They were not there from the opening bell. He used to crouch low and spring up to deliver his punches. In that second bout, he was upright and those legs looked like they belonged on a different fighter. And when then got clipped and went down--and he was upright for that shot where he never used to give an opponent that big of a window.

    But his balance sure didn't look like the same and when those legs go, it's real tough to compensate, especially the hitters. The guy with the old legs was Nelson, but it was Jeff Fenech who didn't have legs that night--and when facing a guy like Nelson, they sure know what to do to capitalize, don't they?
     
  8. Bugger

    Bugger Active Member Full Member

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    I think that sums it up quite well, testament to his fighting style Fenech had the mentality of a bully, the damage to his ego played as much of a part in his downfall as any punch. Saw a speech he gave at his induction into the ibhof a few years back, despite the attemped at modesty, you could hear the bitterness in his words when he spoke of the Nelson draw
     
  9. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This is what I was looking for. I think you're definitely on to something here...it might explain what I mistake for reluctance to be the inability to explode from a crouch, and now that you mention it, he did seem a lot more upright in the second fight.

    Why do you think his legs would start to go at that particular time? He seemed physically primed still. (Or close enough, taking the first fight into consideration.)
     
  10. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It's hard to not feel that he has a point though, don't you think? The fight was reasonably close, but at the end, I could not make a case for Nelson at all.
    Personally, I think he's justified at feeling hard done by.
     
  11. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Loyal Member banned

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    I think part of it also was that Nelson fought badly and still learned some things about Fenech and Fenech didn't see the best Nelson to really learn much, so Nelson came in strong and knowing what to do. I also think Fenech had a bad day when he fought the rematch.
     
  12. smitty78

    smitty78 Guest

    In the early 90's johnny Lewis' Newtown gym in inner city Sydney was arguably the best boxing stable in the world. As a teenaged amateur it was a big thrill to train alonside the like of world class fighters like Fenech, Jeff Harding, Kostya Tszyu, Virgil Hill and ****** Rowsell.

    Some of the gym wars that went down there were legendary and Fenech used to walk through bombs from Harding and Hill regularly. He was real badass, up there with guys like Duran and you never ****ed with Jeff. He also had a massive ego and was quite full of himself.

    On the Fenech-Nelson II undercard was a young Kostya Tszyu (the most underated fighter in the history of the world) preparing to make his pro debut. Kostya would spar Fenech quite often and would make the legend look foolish with his skill and just beat him down every day. Nobody could believe the phenomenon they were seeing. This is what took Fenech's confidence away, being outboxed and outfought by an amateur.

    People like to talk about Jeff Harding like he's a real arsehole but Harding is actually a pretty good bloke. He just couldn't understand why the Australian public loved Fenech so much and he thought he deserved it as well. That **** ate away at jeff for years and he's always been real bitter towards Fenech because of it. Harding is the toughest man you will ever see, a real Spartan, yet little **** could really get to him like that.

    It's a real shame how things turned out for Harding with his drug and alcohol abuse but he is a man who will give you his last 5 dollars, and he is a friend for life. God bless Jeff harding and **** Jeff Fenech. (**** Kostya too for ripping off Johnny Lewis, someone who has saved numerous young kids from Sydney's violent streets and a future of jail or death, a real saint if there ever is one.)
     
  13. WhataRock

    WhataRock Loyal Member Full Member

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    Nelson changed a few things up and came in better shape...The role of favorite in his own country didn't actually help Fenech..he wasn't the same kind of animal, perhaps overconfident, perhaps underdone...probably a bit of both.

    Despite the first fight shenanigans Nelson IMO is the superior and greater fighter.
     
  14. Bollox

    Bollox Active Member Full Member

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    Not long ago I read Lewis's book and he reckons Rowsell was the best fighter he ever had. That was a bit of a surprise to say the least :blood
     
  15. zadfrak

    zadfrak Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Legs can go at any time. Any age. It's something you really have to watch for with particular styles and especially at the lighter weights. And certain styles just don't lend themselves to a guy having the ability to compensate for that loss. It simply changes everything. Offense/defense/endurance/etc. Losing his legs turned Fenech into a completely different fighter and far more vulnerable. But it takes a high level opponent to capitalize and Nelson was certainly that.