Tidbits and factoids: Leonard was a 9 to 5 favorite. In a UPI poll of 30 sportswriters, 16 picked Duran to win by knockout and one picked him to win by decision. Of the 13 who went with Leonard, eight thought he would stop Duran. As Duran was entering the ring, Joe Frazier, who was ringside for the fight, was asked by New York Timescolumnist Dave Anderson if Duran reminded him of anybody. It was a leading question, for Anderson thought that Duran's ferocity would remind Frazier of himself. "Yeah," Frazier replied. "He reminds me of Charles Manson." Duran averaged 60 thrown punches per round and 21 connects, while Leonard averaged 50 thrown punches and 18 connects. Duran was incorrectly announced in the ring as a majority decision winner. Italian judge Angelo Poletti's scorecard had been inaccurately tabulated as 147-147. After the mistake was discovered, the result was announced as a unanimous decision for Duran at the post-fight press conference. In rounds, judge Raymond Baldeyrou of France scored it 6-4-5, judge Harry Gibbs of England saw it 6-5-4, and Poletti had it 3-2-10. William Nack called Polatti's scorecard "a monument to indecision."
Hopefully you are going to share some thoughts on rounds 3-15, as well as your card. Don’t leave me hangin with the lone card! Interesting that the judges had 4-5-10 even rounds, I had 1. How often do you guys score even rounds, and do you feel they were justified in this fight? I could see 4 but more than that, seems like a stretch.
Great thread.....love the idea. Duran fought like a man possessed in this fight...he lost that intensity in the second fight, which I propose as the next bout to review because it looked like two different boxers even though they were the same guys.
Leonard's a bull**** artist though. It's very hard to tell when he's being sincere and when he's saying something because he thinks it makes for a compelling story.
One thing that stands out is Carlos Padilla does not break up clinches. This helped Duran in the infighting sequences.
That's a big controdiction on your part when u demanded magazine quotes and I said trainers can quote anything to a magazine to protect there fighter. You totally dismissed me because it didnt fall in line with your whole Leonard rendered Duran incapable ect. But now when Leonard himself says something that falls out of line with what you want to believe hes a bull#### artist. Yet you had no qualms with Duran being an excuse maker. Now I really liked your concept about doing these fights but as soon as I saw you started off with this one it is of my personal opinion because you wanted to turn Durans victory here into something controversial. That's disappointing to me.
Awesome commercial. I don't remember watching this one at the time, but do remember watching one with just Ray and son. Boxing was so much bigger in the US back then.
Again though, you keep saying this same thing which implies that SRL was fought distinctly different in this fight than he did against other "Physically aggressive" fighters. First this simply isn't true. He fought VERY close to how he always fought against those guys in round 1. It was very similar. Same with the start of round 2, again he's fighting how he typically fights, trying to be the boxer puncher and moving and circling. Very standard SRL. Then he gets clipped hard in round 2, and after that, cover up for the next two rounds mostly. Which perfectly coincides with his comment that he was in a fog for 2 or 3 rounds. Which now you claim SRL is just bsing, but the video footage is way more in line with his theory than your vision of what was going on in SRL head. For God's sake he literally throws like 2 punches the first minute of round 3 after being hurt. Yet this does align perfectly? Okay. Further the other problem with your theory is, Duran wouldn't have been considered one of SRL more physically imposing foes he faced. So while your theory is incorrect on how he fought anyways, why would he choose to fight him that way when they didn't consider Duran physically imposing? Next, prefight they never said they are going to beat Duran at his own game. That is only something that came out afterwards, which is funny that you'll believe what you choose to believe from SRL mouth.. either before or after the fight... Anyways, Angelo said I have the bigger guy, the stronger guy, my guy hits harder and has a longer reach. I don't want SRL backing straight up, as that plays into Duran's strength. I want him controlling the center of the ring and circling and boxing and he'll KO Duran eventually. The whole, his own game thing game out after the fight. They simply felt their guy was the bigger guy and stronger guy and wanted him to fight like it by controlling the ring. Seems to me, this fight went exactly how SRL said it would go. He tried his usually tactics and circling moving and being the boxer puncher in round 1 and part 2. Gets hurt. Goes into a shell mostly for the next 2 rounds. Recovers but now respects Duran's power so he's thrown off by all the feinting Duran is doing on the outside thereafter. He realizes he's in a dog fight and tries to rally and get back in the fight. When you get hurt, and frankly a little scared, you sometimes forget certain things you can do or not do and just try and survive by getting down and dirty. It happens. But the credit for that happening, should fall to Duran... not the narrative of SRL just chose to fight Duran's fight and that's why he lost. That takes all credit away from Duran doing things that forced SRL into that type of war. That has always been my issue with the narrative you and others put forth.
There's no contradiction. I have been consistently skeptical about the excuses and explanations that boxers and others make about fights after the fact. It's also why I think a lot of the "Best I ever Fought" answers are ridiculous. It's naive to believe everything that a boxer says at face value, and as others have pointed out in other contexts, Leonard seems to say more phony and ridiculous things than most boxers. There were several problems with Duran's excuse-making that make it seem highly unreliable to me. I've explained all this before but the main ones are: (1) numerous people (Duran, Arcel, Brown, Duran's wife, reporters...) had highly positive, upbeat things to say about the quality of his preparation and his condition during his training camp (unlike what happened before the first fight...); (2) many other people saw him publicly working out in the weeks before the fight and there were no whispers or concerns from anyone; (3) his excuses after the fight shifted and changed over time. To believe any one of his explanations you have to ignore a bunch of other ones. I don't get why you're so committed to Duran's after-the-fact story or what you have against me viewing this as a very close, competitive fight between two legends. You obviously have very strong views about the fight but you're not interested in rewatching it and sharing your thoughts because you think I have an agenda?
I've already disagreed with most of this elsewhere but a few things: 1) They absolutely said that they were going to beat Duran at his own game, prefight (or something to that effect). You're the only poster here who I've seen question whether that was part of their intent. 2) As I've explained to you a number of times, Leonard usually used more footwork and fled more early on when he was facing physically aggressive and imposing fighters. He used less evasive footwork against other fighters. I'll try to dig up the streamables later. 3) Duran absolutely was one of his most physically imposing opponents up to that point in his career. Ask Carlos Palimino. People need to abandon this idea that Duran was just some blown-up lightweight who jumped up two divisions to fight Leonard. He was a strong, solid, ferocious welterweight who physically beat up on other men in the division. Not sure why Leonard and Dundee didn't fully appreciate that but it seems obvious to me. 4) I showed you that Leonard fought normally through the last minute of Round 2, when he was supposedly already in the beginning of his 3-round daze. I showed you that he threw as many punches as Duran during that segment, threw harder punches than Duran then, and that he used sharp footwork. If you think that's completely consistent with the 3-round daze story then I guess we'll have to disagree for now. I haven't rewatched Round 3 yet, so I will update my take accordingly.
Well I agree that a lot of what Leonard says is BS (a lot of other boxers as well), but this has a ring of truth to me not only in his demeanor. I am not sure how claiming a punch hurt him and made him foggy can cast him in a favorable light. It would make more sense to say it was taking him time to find his spots and hit his stride or that he planned to feel things out and turn up the intensity after the first few or even that he knew Duran would punch himself out, leading Ray to take over mid-late...but either way that is speculation bordering on mind reading. However I think the tape also bears this out giving even more credence to it IMO. Leonard does not seem to be able to fight the way he wants till the tail end of round 4 before hitting a nice stride in rounds 5-7. He looks more aggressive and his punches have more sting on them than in rounds 2-4. Just my take
Yeah, I'm hoping to watch the rest of the fight this afternoon and I'm trying to be open-minded about everything. But in rewatching Round 2, I didn't think he looked as bad in the last part of the round as the conventional view seems to suggest.
