FIGHT OF THE WEEK 3- Joe Frazier vs Muhammad Ali I FOTC (50th anniversary)

I’ve only rewatched 4 rounds so far but I have given all those rounds to Ali in all objectivity - at least as much as I am capable of.

For me to marry up to a card giving Ali just 6 rounds over 15, there would only be 2 more rounds for me to award to Ali over the next 11 rounds.

I’m trying to keep both eyes wide open, so I’ll see, but Ali has to fall back substantially in my eyes from here on in to only warrant 2 more rounds.

From recollection, round 9 was a clear round for Ali but since this is a review, I’ll reset my opinion to zero and score that round afresh. Admittedly, I only recall Ali’s memorable work in the latter stages of that round which can be misleading without taking the whole round into account.

It’s often observed that a seriously determined Joe would not be denied on that night - I agree - but obviously part of the reasoning for that is down to how much punishment Frazier was willing to take, and did in fact take and walk through - which was a wonder in itself but for Joe to be lauded for same it obviously involved a lot of heavy, scoring punches on Ali’s part.

So while admirable, Joe’s grit and determination was a means to an end, to ultimately land scoring shots himself while incurring, heavy, point scoring damage against him on the way in.

Frazier’s courage and intensity weren’t score worthy attributes in their own right but he did receive enormous accolades for his defiance of Ali’s own offensive bombardments - almost as if it not only negated Ali’s own scoring efforts but also flipped itself over as a credit to Joe.

As I recall on prior viewings, I felt Joe won but that it was a lot closer than many had it - perhaps the wider scores in favour of Joe accented more on the aggressive fighter even if that aggression wasn’t necessarily effective in every moment. I dunno.

Suffice to say, there’s a lot going on in this fight to observe and take on board. Not to be gushy, but it was a masterpiece that inherently cannot be wholly appreciated given only a few redresses.

 

Hi Buddy.
You know my thoughts on this great fight, will be very interested in your final scoring, and your observations, your opinion is valued in my house.
stay safe amigo.

 

Thanks Mike. Appreciated. I don’t generally specifically score fights per se, just having a bit of fun with this one and technically, my address and attention to detail might need some honing. Always just our opinions after all.

 

**** is starting to get interesting.

Can you hurry up now??? Please???

 

Patience is a virtue. I need to build it up for the big let down. LOL.

 

Muhammad Ali vs Joe Frazier 1

1 Ali
2 Ali
3 Frazier
4 Ali
5 Ali
6 Frazier
7 Frazier
8 Frazier
9 Ali
10 Ali
11 Frazier 10-8
12 Frazier
13 Frazier
14 Ali
15 Frazier 10-8

143-140 Frazier in rounds 8-7 Frazier

So i decided to rewatch this fight with the recent bump in this thread, i'm not going to do a big write up. Because more knowledgeable posters than me have already said it better than what i could.

A few things i will say i thought Ali did well early on pot shotting Frazier at distance, now Frazier would land the best punches of the round. And i can see how some people may of scored them rounds for Frazier, but i thought Ali landed the more punches overall and landed some effective hard punches himself to win the early rounds.

The fight for me started to turn around after the 5th round, at this point in the fight i felt like Frazier was able to stop Ali from circling around the ring and trap him on the ropes. And land devasting hooks to the body and head.

To Ali's credit he did steal a few rounds in the 2nd half of the fight, including the 9th round when he got hurt and comeback to have Frazier in really bad trouble at the end of the round, definitely a stand out round and one of the best rounds in the fight, and the only time Frazier looked in real distress.

The 11th round now there's a few talking points about this round, 1 should the knockdown of been scored ? yes a punch did land but Ali did visibly seem to slip on his own accord and not from the punch itself i guess it's debatable, then we come to later in the round where Frazier did almost put down Ali legitimately. Now i thought Frazier hurt Ali so much in the last 30-40 that he deserved a 10-8 round, and i'm sticking by the score i feel like that's one of the clearest 10-8 rounds you'll see IMO.

To Ali's credit i thought he comeback well, and fought well with Frazier in rounds 13 and 14, the 13th round was close with alot of even exchanges. But Frazier put Ali on the ropes and was the effective aggressor, so i felt like he deserved to edge this round based on that and again another stand out round in a great fight.

Now you don't need me to tell you about the classic 15th round knockdown, what may surprise you is that for 1:30 seconds of the round i had it a 10-7 round for Frazier as i felt he was that dominant. But Ali did enough in the 2nd half of the round for me not to give Frazier an extra point.

Overall a fantastic fight the classic boxer vs puncher skill vs will, and it is actually a close fight scoring it on a round by round basis rather than the 10 point must system.

PS i said wasn't going to do a big write up and well..... look here we are.

 

That’s a FINE write up. I better get a move on and post my scoring - hard to steal time to watch this fight in absolute peace. You’re MIA for a few minutes then someone is screaming out to find out where you are …I say f..k off, I’m having some ME time, LOL.

 

Okay, I previously reviewed the first 4 rounds - I gave them all to Ali.

The official judges were Aidala, Recht and referee Mercante.

I’ll indicate their scores per round respectively for comparison purposes. Their scores will be shown below mine for each round, eg - “FAF”.

1 Ali
AFA
2 Ali
AAA
3 Ali
FFF
4 Ali
FFF
5 Ali
FAF
6 Frazier
FFA
7 Frazier
FFA
8 Frazier
AFF
9 Ali
AAA
10 Frazier
FFA
11 Frazier
FFF
12 Frazier - very close but if required to select a winner of the round it would be Joe
FFE
13 Frazier
AFF
14 Ali
AAF
15 Frazier
FFF

So, when the smoke cleared, I had Frazier 8, Ali 7.

Scoring formally can be hard work (LOL) but it is ultimately fun and you feel that you’ve watched the action far more closely and appreciate the finer details far better than if you casually watched for sheer entertainment.

I wrote notes for each round but won’t include them here unless we, together, happen to examine any given rounds more closely.

Overall, I think Frazier might’ve gained some extra credit for mere aggression, whether effective or not.

I think Joe might’ve also gained some extra credit perhaps for taking numerous shots to the head (Ali the one who was actually scoring the points at theses times but Joe receiving the accolades) whilst bulling forward without abate.

The comment that Frazier is a “tank” (in terms of being impervious to Ali’s punches) was repeated often - but still, Ali was landing a lot of hard head shots throughout for Joe to earn the “tank” rep.

It was also repeatedly mentioned that Ali’s breaking of the action (clinching) would “hurt” him in the scoring.

How would that be enforced unless the ref literally deducted points?

Did the judges have the discretionary power to mentally deduct for same? - say Ali landed a 3-4 combo but then held - could that technically negate his earlier scoring punches?

I think I was on the same page as Mercante for several rounds but other rounds we were at odds - perhaps the accumulation of Ali’s holding (for which several warnings were given) gave Mercante cause to begin discrediting” Ali’s score? I dunno.

Definite slip at the start of round 11. The wet area was already identified by Dunphy earlier in the call - and Ali himself had already skidded on that area also (or was it after rd 11?, can’t remember).

But yeah, no KD, not even technically since there was a delay between the shot Frazier landed and Ali’s trip to the canvas.

Also, the fight was scored round by round - is it reasonable to allow the benefit of the doubt for the combatants to modify themselves effectively IF fighting under a prearranged 10 point scoring system?

I can see how some might see a 10-8 round for round 11 BUT Ali didn’t go down - so maybe credit due for his efforts to remain on his feet? - otherwise, might’ve been better off taking a knee to gain some respite if he was going to cop a 10-8 against him anyway. LOL.

I believe Joe rocked Ali in the last 40 secs of the 11th round - and while Joe did connect with some hard follow ups thereafter, he also missed a few as Ali skittered backward.

Anyway, I know I haven’t scored it perfectly (a lot to absorb given the high level of activity and opposing styles) but still feel, at least imo, that this fight was a lot closer than most scorecards.

Not to take anything away from Joe but the fight really opened up that much more for him as Ali tired during the 2nd half of the fight.

However, Joe was investing in some great body shots in the early rounds while Ali was sharp shooting his head. -

Therefore, rather than assigning stand alone fatigue only to Ali (though Ali looked tired even my round 3) Joe should perhaps be more reasonably credited as reaping the later benefits of his own stoic body work which didn’t necessarily see him win the early rounds but did set a solid platform for his later rounds advantage.

My next several viewings could easily see some modifications, either way, to my scorecard. Not the easiest fight to score in my view.