Fight of the Week #7: James Toney Doubleheader (Nunn and McCallum)

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mrkoolkevin, Dec 4, 2018.


  1. Pat M

    Pat M Well-Known Member Full Member

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    JT definitely landed the harder punches and if there was going to be a knockout, I believe that JT would have been the one still standing. MM looked smaller, and he was not as quick or strong as JT. I probably gave MM some close rounds just because I like his style of boxing. It's amazing that we agreed on 8 rounds in this fight, there were a lot of them that could go either way.
     
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  2. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The times I've scored McCallum-Toney I'd had it either a draw or Toney winning by a point. But it was super close and the kind of fight that needed a rematch.
     
  3. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Yeah, just started rewatching. First few rounds are very close, but I think Nunn basically just outworked him. As the commentators note, Toney is getting much better leverage on his punches while Nunn is mostly just flinging arm punches, but Toney is barely landing anything at all. I guess I would score them 3-0 Nunn or maybe 2-0-1. Nunn's more entertaining when he stands and trades but it's frustrating watching him throw away some of his biggest advantages (his legs and reach)--reminds me of the Roldan fight. Great seeing two supremely talented and skilled fighters in action though.
     
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  4. Bulldog24

    Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I score both McCallum-Toney fights differently every time I watch either!

    Nunn was unbelievable.

    There is no level higher than these fights.
     
  5. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Agree. Top middleweights from the best middleweight era of all time.
     
  6. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Toney v McCallum 1

    Finally got round to watching at least one fight this week. Here's how I had it:

    1 McCallum (bit busier, nicer flurries)
    2 Toney (stiffer jabs and edged the exchanges)
    3 McCallum (busyness and accuracy)
    4 Toney (best punches of the round)
    5 Toney (slower round - close but Toney landed the best punch although he chased Mike around the ring for much of it)
    6 McCallum (pretty even on the exchanges but McCallum was busier with his niggly jab)
    7 Toney (story of the fight so far, McCallum the busier, Toney landing the harder clean punches)
    8 McCallum (close and tough to score. Again, Toney landed well in the exchanges but McCallum landed more and landed well too)
    9 McCallum (good round from Mike - outworked and outhustled Toney. Toney landed probably the best shot of the round near the end but still not enough to take it)
    10 Toney (Toney tries to put McCallum's lights out in the first 45 seconds of the round then looks puffed out and lets Mike back in before getting the better of the exchanges towards the end)
    11 Toney (close - McCallum stepped off the gas a little and Toney made more of the round and got the better of the exchanges. McCallum not hurting Toney)
    12 Toney (big round for Toney - hurts McCallum with big combinations twice in the round. Mike shows a great heart (and chin!) but the biggest round of the fight and it's Toney who closes the show)

    Toney 115-113 McCallum

    Toney 7-5 in rounds
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
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  7. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Some further thoughts on my scorecard and the fight. I’ve watched this one a few times before but have never scored it. My impression of the action is much as people here have already described it. McCallum overall was the busier fighter but Toney carried the bigger threat with his punches. McCallum was building up points with his jab but in the exchanges it was Toney who scored better overall.

    I didn’t make any rounds even, although some were close. How you scored the fight depends to some degree on how you measure effectiveness - do you like McCallum’s pointscoring but less hurtful shots or Toney’s bigger bombs? In fact, sometimes I scored the rounds differently than that. I gave Toney the 5th because he landed the biggest punch of the round but McCallum the 9th even though Toney again landed the biggest punch. The difference was that McCallum bossed the 9th and already had earned the round at the point Toney landed whereas the 5th could have gone either way but Toney’s punch made the difference on my card.

    Toney winged his right hand a lot but managed to maintain his balance so that even when it missed he was well positioned to throw a follow up hook. McCallum landed some lovely combos and some good clean shots but Toney never seemed rattled by anything Mike threw at him.

    McCallum’s general conditioning seemed slightly better than Toney’s, who wanted to take occasional breathers (most notably in the 10th when he looked spent after the early onslaught). But Toney managed to take the final three rounds on my card, including a big final round which made him the winner imo. Still the balance between the busier more consistent output of McCallum against the more sporadic but effective punching of Toney meant a draw seemed fair and a rematch inevitable.

    A scientific boxing match of rare quality that broke out into a fight frequently, it was a pleasure to watch again.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
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  8. escudo

    escudo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Will give these a rewatch on tuesday. God knows I love me some James Toney. BURRGA KIIIING.
     
  9. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Good analysis and scoring. I completely agree. What did you think about the 2nd fight?
     
  10. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    I basically ended up with the same score card. Was very interesting watching Toney come back in the fight. Went from accomplishing nothing offensively to getting some of Nunn's timing and tendencies down, to winging hard power punch leads and counters at him and making him pay. Landed some textbook counters when Nunn got into the bad habit of throwing one punch at a time and standing around just a little too much. Great example of smarts, timing, and accuracy beating speed (as a boxing coach told me just last week). Toney at 23 was already as poised and slick as any veteran fighter--further evidence against the notion that you need 70 pro fights or pro fights every other weekend to master the subtle nuances of the sport.

    Nunn seemed to run out of steam pretty abruptly, after he ate a few hard Toney punches in the second half of the fight. I wonder if it was mostly physical or psychological.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
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  11. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Michael Nunn vs. James Toney

    Round 1: 10-9 Toney
    Round 2: 10-9 Nunn
    Round 3: 10-10 Even
    Round 4: 10-9 Nunn
    Round 5: 10-9 Nunn
    Round 6: 10-9 Nunn
    Round 7: 10-9 Nunn
    Round 8: 10-10 Even
    Round 9: 10-9 Toney
    Round 10: 10-9 Nunn
    Round 11: TKO for Toney

    Total: 98-94 Nunn through 10 completed rounds. Watching this on youtube, you have to zone out on Dan Goosen at ringside a bit because I believe he had parted ways with Nunn by this time and more times than not when Toney landed he stated that Nunn was hurt. I do think he was very shaky at the end of the 10th though, despite the fact that I gave Nunn the round. I thought he had done so much work earlier in the round that I couldn't forget it. I think the worst thing that happened to Nunn was KOing Kalambay in the first round. He seemd to think he was a slugger. Dundee tried everything to get him moving but he stayed in close too much. Interesting fight.
     
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  12. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    I actually thought Goosen's comments were mostly pretty perceptive--almost eerily so. He clearly knew Nunn's mannerisms and body language extremely well, and he was spot on in describing how the fight was turning.
     
  13. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Man, I love this type of fight. A high-skill chess match where both men are throwing punches with bad intentions. Two crafty guys with excellent jabs, footwork, and defensive skills who aren't afraid to throw big counter-punches in the heat of action. A couple great sequences where jabbing duels were followed by Toney trying to counter with straight rights followed by McCallum countering with right uppercuts. I also like a lot of the little things Toney does so effortlessly, like firing off a triple jab while closing distance and cutting off the ring, and staying in fighting position. High level stuff.

    4 rounds in and I have Toney up 3-1 or 2-1-1.
     
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  14. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Quality-wise, it doesn't get much better than this, my man. Great fight choice!
     
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  15. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    McCallum got hit far less by Toney than Nunn did.