Fight of the Week #8: Pacquaio - Marquez I and II

I agree that 7-9 were very close and will likely be the swing rounds. Ledderman and 1 judge scored them for PAC, while the other judge (maybe both) scored them for Márquez. I don’t think either 115-110 card was unreasonable.

 

JMM vs Pac 1

Round 1 Pac 10-6
Round 2 Pac 10-9 (20-15)
Round 3 JMM 10-9 (pac 29-25)
Round 4 JMM 10-9 (Pac 38-35)
Round 5 JMM 10-9 (Pac 47-45)
Round 6 JMM 10-9 (Pac 56-55)
Round 7 JMM 10-9 (65-65)
Round 8 JMM 10-9 (JMM 75-74)
Round 9 JMM 10-9 (JMM 85-83)
Round 10 Pac 10-9 (JMM 94-93)
Round 11 JMM 10-9 (JMM 104-102)
Round 12 Even (JMM 114-112)

Just think if this got stopped in the first or if the 3 KD rule was in effect we may never have gotten to see a classic fight and maybe not the remainder of this series.

I was never a Pac fan but I always liked watching his fights and expected him to dominate and stop JMM.... prior to the fight.

I liked and knew of Márquez at this stage, but always thought of him as a poor mans MAB (I don’t think that today lol). I knew he was good but I did not think of him as great or top tier. I didn’t think he would win or last going into the fight.

I came away impressed by JMM but still came away thinking of him as a lesser MAB and figured Marco would beat him and he would disappear. But after that I thought of him as an equal of Pac and expected a close fight the 2nd time around and actually came all the way around to picking JMM going into fight 2.

Looking forward to reviewing that later

 

Even though our scores were slightly different I saw it real similar to you.
We differed in round 1 you went JMM I called it even and rd 9 you went JMM I went Pac...other than that we are spot on.

JMM vs Pac 2

Rd 1 even
Rd 2 JMM (JMM 20-19)
Rd 3 Pac 10-8 (Pac 29-28)
Rd 4 Pac (Pac 39-37)
Rd 5 JMM (Pac 48-47)
Rd 6 JMM (57-57)
Rd 7 JMM (JMM 67-66)
Rd 8 JMM (JMM 77-75)
Rd 9 Pac (JMM 86-85)
Rd 10 Pac (95-95)
Rd 11 Pac (Pac 105-104)
Rd 12 JMM (Draw 114-114)

I am not changing my card, but I wished I had scored 1 one way or the other so that I could point to a winner...oh well.

I thought 6-7 were close JMM rounds but if I gave them to manny 116-112 would be a fair card. I though 9 & 11 were close for manny, but if I gave them to JMM then 116-112 would be fair the other way. I could see 116-112 for either guy and not think it was a bad card. I used to say this was a robbery and JMM got screwed after this rewatch it is the first time I didn’t score JMM as the winner (maybe 1 9 or 11 were the swing rounds for my card?)

A decent fight but in my mind the least entertaining of thier series...not bad just not quite as good as its predecessor

 

I wouldn't want to be a judge, somebody is going to accuse you of being crooked, but in reality when two fighters are closely matched a lot of the rounds could go either way. Another factor is that fights often look different from ringside than they do on video. If you score a fight you'll probably make one side mad.

In the second fight I thought that MP improved technically, and it looked like his knockdown of JMM hurt JMM worse than the 3 in the first round of the first fight. The first fight is a good argument against the three knockdown rule.

 

JMM vs Pac 3
Just in case anyone else wants to score this one. I used to say Márquez got robbed but I only found 4 clear rounds 2-2 for each guy. I thought 8 were very hard to score so I have ABSOLUTELY no confidence in my total score or that our rounds won’t vary a whole lot...but here goes.

Round 1 Pac
Round 2 JMM (19-19)
Round 3 JMM (JMM 29-28)
Round 4 JMM (JMM 39-37)
Round 5 Pac (JMM 48-47)
Round 6 Pac (57-57)
Round 7 JMM (JMM 67-66)
Round 8 JMM (JMM 77-75)
Round 9 even (JMM 87-85)
Round 10 Pac (JMM 96-95)
Round 11 Pac (105-105)
Round 12 JMM (JMM 115-114)

I loved the Spanish commentary, and while I didn’t understand it man was that an energetic announce team.

I used to think this was an outright robbery and think it is quite easy to get swept up in consensus opinion on fights and call something egregious where in reality it is just a hard fight to score. I wonder if those who call GGG Canelo or Fury Wilder a robbery might change thier minds like those of us who thought Zarate vs Pintor was one??? Time will tell.

 

Manny Pacquiao v Juan Manuel Marquez 1

1 10-06
2 10-09
3 09-10
4 10-10 (tough to score - good work from both of them)
5 09-10
6 09-10
7 09-10 (close)
8 10-09 (close)
9 10-10 (tough to score)
10 09-10 (close)
11 09-10
12 10-09

Manny Pacquiao 114-113 Juan Manuel Marquez

Damn, I found that tough to score from round 7 on!

Rounds 1 and 2 were no brainers, rounds 3-6 Marquez got the better of things and evened up the fight, although I scored round 4 even.

Then it got very close and I can see any of those rounds going the other way to how I scored it.

My card came out as a one point win for Pac Man and I thought he got the better of the last round, which gave him the win on my card.

Got to say a draw was a fair result and probably the right result, although it goes down as a moral victory at least for Marquez after surviving round 1.

 

HBO version is available on daily motion for fight 2

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And 3

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And 4

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I figured I might as well watch the 4th fight as well since I won’t be revisiting these for a while.

Round 1 even (might be wrong since most give to Manny)
Round 2 Pac (Pac 20-19)
Round 3 JMM 10-8 (JMM 29-28)
Round 4 Pac (38-38)
Round 5 Pac 10-8 (Pac 48-46)
Round 6 JMM KO!!!!!

Great last second KO

I felt Manny was boxing better and had better foot movement (keeping his foot on the outside) and head movement. Or that JMM was intentionally countering less in order to land a closer...or perhaps a blend of the 2. I was going to give Manny 6 prior to the knockout so Márquez would have had his work cut out for him if he hadn’t ko’d Pac.

Good fights rated in my preference:

1 was my favorite
4 was 2nd but the best ending
3 was 3rd
2 was least exciting to me....but still good!

Official results Manny 2-1-1
My cards JMM 3-0-1
But I don’t feel any were robberies

 

I am hoping a few more people post thier cards.

Many including myself have called the first 3 fights robberies....I have changed my mind (similar to Zarate vs Pintor) upon revisiting them. I have JMM 2-0-1 over Pac but don’t feel any of them are poor decisions in hindsight. I wonder how others might see it now.

It is so easy to get swept away in the moment by emotions and public consensus opinions and call every fight a robbery. Looking at this through a years later lens, my mind is changed at this time.

 

Will hopefully revisit fight 2 before the end of the weekend. Definitely want to revisit fight 3 as well as I remember watching that live and thinking it was a travesty.

So given your change of mind I want to see if I have a similar conversion!

So far, scored the first one and gave it to Pac by 1 point so already we have a different score. Great fight that first one, though - really enjoyed rewatching it.

 

Manny Pacquiao v Juan Manuel Marquez 2

1 09-10
2 09-10
3 10-08
4 10-09 (close)
5 09-10
6 09-10
7 10-09 (close)
8 09-10
9 10-10
10 10-09
11 09-10 (close)
12 09-10

Manny Pacquiao 113-115 Juan Manuel Marquez

 

Good fight, never less than absorbing - didn't quite reach the heights of the first fight as it was a bit cagey at times.

Neither fighter gained control for any signicant period - one would have a good round, then the other would regain momentum.

I had Marquez by 2 rounds but not with any great confidence.

 

Marquez-Pacquaio I

Round 1 -Pacquaio 10-6
Round 2 -Pacquaio 10-9
Round 3 - Marquez 10-9
Round 4 - Marquez 10-9
Round 5 - Marquez 10-9
Round 6 - Marquez 10-9
Round 7 - Marquez 10-9
Round 8 - Marquez 10-9
Round 9 - Marquez 10-9
Round 10 - Pacquaio 10-9
Round 11 - Marquez 10-9
Round 12 Pacquaio 10-9

Marquez 113-112

Marquez-Pacquaio II

Round 1 - Marquez 10-9
Round 2 - Marquez 10-9
Round 3 - Pacquaio 10-8
Round 4 - Pacquaio 10-9
Round 5 - Marquez 10-9
Round 6 - Marquez 10-9
Round 7 - Marquez 10-9
Round 8 - Marquez 10-9
Round 9 - Pacquaio 10-9
Round 10 - Pacquaio 10-9
Round 11 - Marquez 10-9
Round 12 - Marquez 10-9

Marquez 115-112

Marquez-Pacquaio III

Round 1 - Pacquaio 10-9
Round 2 - Marquez 10-9
Round 3 - Pacquaio 10-9
Round 4 - Marquez 10-9
Round 5 - Marquez 10-9
Round 6 - Pacquaio 10-9
Round 7 - Marquez 10-9
Round 8 - Marquez 10-9
Round 9 - Marquez 10-9
Round 10 - Marquez 10-9
Round 11 - Marquez 10-9
Round 12 - Pacquaio 10-9

Marquez 116-112

Fight II IMO was the best as it was both in their primes and the most consistently competitive. I think Marquez outclassed him after round 2 in fight I and I think he outclassed him and was blatantly robbed in fight III. Fight III was Marquez’ best performance perhaps in his career all things considered.

 

Manny Pacquiao v Juan Manuel Márquez 3

1 10-10
2 09-10
3 09-10 (close)
4 09-10 (very close, hard to score)
5 10-09
6 09-10 (close)
7 09-10
8 09-10 (difficult to score - Márquez was in control at range, Pacquiao scored a bit towards the end)
9 09-10 (close)
10 10-10
11 10-09
12 10-09

Manny Pacquiao 113-117 Juan Manuel Márquez

The least entertaining of the three in terms of pure action and drama, according to my scorecard total this wasn’t close. But there were several close rounds and all of them I scored to Márquez.

I was watching trying to figure out whether Márquez was fighting much better than the first two fights or Pacquiao was fighting worse. I think it was the latter. Pacquiao was bouncing in and out of range very ineffectually for a lot of the fight and only seemed to settle down towards the end when he started to plant his feet and boxed a bit smarter.

A lot of punches from both men were blocked on the arms so it wasn’t easy to see when a flurry was genuinely landing but my impression was that Márquez was getting the better of the exchanges and his punches were more precise.

A somewhat telling sign at the end was Pacquiao’s reaction - no celebration at all. I think he thought he’d lost.

Márquez caught a bad one here imo.

Overall 3 fight total on my card is 2-1 to Márquez. The first two could have gone either way but the third was a comfortable win for Márquez.

 

For completion’s sake just watched the 4th fight. Manny was much more agressive in this fight than in the third. The game plan was obviously to pick up the pace, not fight Márquez’s fight and put him under sustained pressure. Great action, particularly in the fifth where both of them let fly repeatedly.

You can see Márquez starting to time Manny a bit better in the sixth but even though Pacquiao had been down in the third, the KO punch came from nowhere and was just one of those perfectly timed short counters that hit him on the sweet spot of the chin.

A remarkable finish and a terrific short fight, it was a fitting (if atypical) end to the series and a deserved win for Márquez after getting the wrong end of a poor decision in the third fight.