Fighter of the decade.

A quick google search looking for 2015 list of pound for pound boxers would show that your claim that Walters was rank in the top 10 by MANY( which I translate to be the majority and the POPULAR opinion ) to be false. None of the more reputable boxing sites (and the RING or Trans Boxing) had him in the top 10, the fact that you want me to go searching the bowels of the internet just to prove your point, proves your claim was BS in the 1st place. But c'mon provide me the links from reputable sites or forums were people were ranking Walters at the top 10, I provided sources to support my claim, you should do the same for yours.

Show me the scores then, because the media, the posters from this very forum and fan scorecards from eye on the ring had Taylor beating Postol, you are trying to force a controversy when their is none at all, and no, finding 1 random poster from some obscure forum who agrees with you is not what I would call solid evidence.

That is your opinion, point is Ledderman had it 115-113 and his a pretty respected scoring judge in the game, its so easy to use that excuse "young superstar gets the nod because......" when they get into a close fight, Emmanuel Steward had Cotto winning by a very slight margin, while Dan Rafael and Kiren Mulvaney also had Cotto winning, Darious Ortiz from ESPN scored it a draw. BTW, you're acting as if Cotto is the only boxer in the world guilty of playing dirty, Hopkins and Duran are worst offenders than Cotto yet they are consider ATGs, Mayweather always uses his elbows and forarms to illegally push his opponents back, a lot of times he would even stick his forearm on his opponents face to back them off yet he never gets called for that. Those low blows were unfortunate true, but I dont think Cotto was aiming for the nuts, its not like he was in danger of being KO when the low blows happened, Cotto is a body puncher and Judah loves to duck low, its not out of the realm for something like that to happen but it did, were not talking Horn level of dirty fighting here.

If you want to make a poll sure, but make sure to put the contex in, Donaire @ 126 or Cotto @ 147, so people would now it is Nonito at a weight class he looked mediocre on vs Cotto on a weight class he arguably had the most success on.

 

BTW its not just Clottey's Judah win but also his close bouts with , 2 very highly rated fighters at the time in Cotto and Margarito which was why I rated him higher than you would a typical paper champ. You are higher on Walters than I am and thats ok, but if you still can't conceived that Clottey is a much better win compare to typical paper champ like Ricky Burns, Berto, Algieri and Sosa despite Clottey proving he can provide a good challenge against the elites that a typical paper champ simply couldn't then we should just simply agree to disagree, this convo has gone too long already and the actual topic of the thread has been derailed.

 

You shouldn't past judgement after bragging about your much older join date and using that as some sort of authoritative reason as to why ALL your claims were correct, even after I provided several links that proved how several of your claims were just plain wrong.

 

Calzaghe. Yes he transcends time..

 

Why are you comparing their whole career when it was 2014 FW and 2009 WW Cotto that matters in this discussion? Maybe its because you know that your argument collapse once we put CONTEXT in the equation? Thats like Hopkins fans bragging about beating Oscar De La Hoya in the MW Div, when we all know even Felix Sturm could beat Oscar at that weight class. At the end of the day Walters beat Donaire at FW not at BW, SFW or even SBW were he had 90+% of his success. BTW, your over exaggerating how hurt Cotto actually was, the man did got caught in the 1st round but he was still standing toe to toe and trading punches with Judah when the low blow happened and Judah did duck low, 2nd low blow Cotto was in no danger at all.

90%?, Show me the link of the gamethread then, you claim I make up stuff but I actually back by argument with links you just say things that you think was right and so far, the reliability of your memory has been extremely dodgy at the best. But I do agree Mosely and Cotto is a Close match like Clottey vs Cotto was, I didn't deny that Mosely vs Cotto was close (I just didn't think it was controversial, based on the media/fan opinions I read at the time, I though it was clear 7-5 Cotto but I'm not gonna) but Mosely is a HOF fighter himself and the fact that we are comparing WW Cotto match with a game HOF like Mosely, to his match against Clottey, further proves how tough of an opponent Clottey was during that time.

 

No I provided sources for my arguments thru links, one thing school though to me is to always back up your arguments with sources and I did just that, you on the other hand used your OWN opinion and memory as the basis of your argument and you got proven wrong multiple times yet you are to stuborn to admit that. Walters was never ring champ like you claimed, Clottey was not a fringe top 10 WW in 2010, Ledderman didn't had Mosely winning the Cotto fight, Bivol doesn't come to his fight the same weight as his weight in weight, Postol beating Taylor was not the POPULAR opinion and so on. The only one being a school kid here is you who wont admit you have been proving wrong on several occasions, at least I was willing to admit that I was wrong on my Walters vs Sosa analysist.

 

Ricky Burns had a better career than Lucas Mathysse but I for one would not rate Burns as the better fighter, Baldomir might have had a better career but it is obvious that Clottey was the better fighter.

 

Once again you are stating your opinion like its a fact, your claim that most had Mosely winning is just that, your opinion, I provided evidence that that wasn't the case and I did watch the fight but I dont walk around using my scorecard as a valid reason why a fight is a roberry or not, at the end of the day media/majority of fan score cards >>>> your own scoring. Its up to you to provide actual actual evidence that the Mosely vs Cotto fight was more controversial than the Clottey vs Cotto, but either way, Clottey's ability to hang with Cotto tells us a lot about his skills. Also you seem to be avoiding the fact that Clottey also lost a close UD against plastered Margarito despite breaking his hand mid fight, a paper champion wouldn't even survive 6 rounds with that version of Margarito.

Your over exaggerating once again, Cotto was stunned yes but he quickly recovered, got out of the ropes and was exchanging with Judah once the low blow happened, look at Cotto after the low blow, thats not the look of a guy who was seriously hurt like he was in several occasions against Pac and Margarito, or yes even round 3 vs Chop Chop (Cotto was really taking over that fight anyway, yes the stoppage was premature but the outcome would have still been the same) were he went into defensive mode. I didn't watch/dont remember the Torres fight so I'll leave that. In the end, Cotto's resume at WW and JWW is really good with a HOF, plenty of top fighters in the Div and plenty of former titlist scalps on his name during his campaign at 140/47, regardless of vacant belts.

Yep I meant Donaire at Flyweight, and even if you think Donaire is the better scalp in general compare to Cotto, CONTEXT, is still important when considering our discussion. Earlier you were talking about how context over Clottey's wins over Judah and Corrales should be taken into consideration so we dont blow it out of proportion, yet when it comes to Walter win over Donaire we should just ignore context altogether and pretend he beat Donaire at a weight Doniare was comfortable at? Should I pretend then that Clottey beat Corrales at lightweight too?

 

In that case Baldomir should also be rated higher than Walters as well who was never ranked the lineal, nor held multiple titles in his division, nor beat the MAN on his divison. So what exactly is your point with these argument? At the end of the day, Clottey has the better case for being the better fighter, he fought 2 world class WW and gave them a tough fight a regular paper chamo couldn't, he also beat Judah (admittedly a weaker version) more convincingly, beat Corrales, and was in total control of his fight vs Baldo, until the eventful 10th and 11th were Clottey unleashed his inner Golata and just could not stop clashing heads (literally) with the guy he was already ahead of.

 

Unofficial weight means the fighter's weight during the night of the fight, or did you not know that?

You said MANY not SOME, dont back track now, its very easy to interpret many being at least half (if not more) in the case of media/fans scoring the fight for Postol.

You certainly didn't imply that Clottey barely being in the top 10 is YOUR Ranking, in fact, its common sense to interpret that you were implying that as the popular opinion, as you said that the so called, popular pound for pound rankings that had Walters anywhere from inside the top 10 (which apparently many people had him in according to you) to 30, barely has Clottey in the top 10 among the WW.

 

At the end of the day, Clottey put up a very tough fight against 2 world class fighters, at their prime weight class and near or at their prime age. Guys like Beltran and Sosa (whom you initially compared Clottey too) would have been destroyed/dominated against real top competition, which was not the case for Clottey (who also own wins against decent, but not top class scalps himself in Judah and Corrales). Now if you still think Clottey is just on a level of a typical paper champ like those 2 guys then go ahead, but I'm not as stubborn as you to admit that I was wrong about my initial assessment of Walters, after you pointed out that his draw against Sosa (his only real decent W other than Donaire as Darch was old and shot already) was in fact a robbery, which I do agree after I watch the match a few days ago. Anyway, I'm tired of arguing with someone who cant admit they were wrong about something even thou the evidence is dead clear, so lets just end this.

 

Pacquiao. For the second decade in a row.

 

Is it possible that the Fighter of the Decade award should remain vacant?

 

Mayweather or Ward.

 

So Margarito didn't cheat? Then ok then, thats means his achievements were legit, he defended his belt multiple times, he KO'd a green Sergio Martinez and TKO's a prime Cotto, yet struggled heavily against Clottey and only won because Clottey broke his hands.
What the, did you even read what I posted?! I was talking about how you were EMPHASIZING THE IMPORTANCE OF CONTEXT when talking about Corrales and Judah, jeez man, you should read my post carefully before getting too defensive. Anyway, yet in the case of the poll you were planning to make comparing 2014 Donaire to 2009 Cotto, you were willing to leave out the part that the featherweight Doniare and the welterweight Cotto is what was relevant in our discussion, not their p4p standing at that moment. Both were talented fighters the end of their respective prime, except one was competing at a weight they were comfortable at and the other was competing at a weight too big for him, guess which one is which.

Dude you memory stinks, I called you out for multiple BS you claimed and provided sources and links, then you quickly retracted from your original claims tellin me you never made them in the 1st place and when I quoted your original points to prove that you did made those claims, now you are coming up with this BS. DUDE just own up and admit you made a mistake, jeez man, your are just making a fool of yourself.