Fighter of The Week: Johnny Coulon- The Chicago Spider or The Cherry Picker from Logan Square

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by BitPlayerVesti, Jun 11, 2018.


  1. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

    8,584
    11,096
    Oct 28, 2017
    I thought this would be fun to try. I'm going to do threads on important pre-war boxers of the lower weight classes. I'm also going to pick ones I haven't looked into much before to keep things interesting for myself.

    Coulon stood at only 5 foot tall, but would make numerous title claims in the then largely undefined lower devisions, before becoming recognised as the bantamweight champion of the world. He was born in Toronto in 1889, but grew up in Chicago. He said he had over 300 fights, many of which have not been recorded. He become known as The Cherry Picker of Logan Square early in his career, with the ballroom of a tavern near Logan Square hosting weekly fights, where he participated in many.

    In terms of fighting style cyberboxingzone describes him as "very short. . . but also very clever[,] quick and possessed fast hands" Callis ranks him 10th all time at Bantamweight.

    Nat Fleischer rated him 6th or 7th at bantamweight, Charley Rose ranks him at 7th, and Herb Goldman ranks him 8th

    His first boxrec listed fight was in 1905 aged 15. However a match in 1906, where he weighed 98Ibs, is listed as his pro-debut against the 113Ib Danny Goodman, so it seems that the previous matches may have been amateur contests. In 1907 he fought Kid Murphy billed for the 105Ib paperweight title (referred to as the bantamweight title). Coulon lost a 10 round decision, however in 1908 defeated him in two 10 round decisions to claim the paperweight title. He defended his title claim atleast twice, before losing a 3 round newspaper decision to Eddie Doyle, still in 1908.

    Coulon then defeated Kid Murphy once more in 1909, and fought a no decision listed as a newspaper draw with future featherweight title claimant Joe Coster, before defeating Cecil "Tibby" Watson billed for the 108Ib title. He rounded out the year with two 6 round no decision contests, getting the newspaper verdict over the larger Young Ziringer, and was even with Patsy Brannigan (a newspaper biography of him can be read here).

    In 1910 he would defeat George Kitson on a 10 round decision to claim the 112Ib Flyweight title, defending his claim with a 9th round KO Earl Denning, and another 10 round decision over Jim Kenrick, which by some sources whom him the Bantamweight title. In less than a month he would face Jim Kenrick again, with a 19th round KO, to now claim the 115Ib title, at paperweight or flyweight. He would later say that he was weakened with an ill stomach when he fought Kenrick. He then fought a series of 10 round no decision contests, being even with Young O'Leary and getting the worse of it with Frankie Burns, ranked #8 batamweight of all time by Nat Fleischer, before beating Phil McGovern, brother of Terry McGovern, and rematching Frankie Burns, this time getting the better of it. He rounded out the year with a 10 round decion of Charley Harvey and a 5 round KO of Earl Denning to defend his 115Ib title.

    In 1911 he would claim the Bantamweight title, which would appear to be defined as 116Ibs, beginning with a dominant 20 round decision over Frankie Conley, only losing two rounds. Later in the fight Conley would badly sprain his wrist, but kept fighting. That year he strengthened his claim with a 5th round KO of George Kitson, and news decisions over Phil McGovern and Harry Forbes, formerly Bantamweight champion from 1901 to 1903, before a news draws with Eddie O'Keefe and Johnny Daly. The last of these fights was in May, however Coulon would not fight again this year after the death of his father in July, which would also be the start of his decline.

    1912 started with a bang, with a furious fight with George Kitson, who's seconds threw up the sponge in the 3rd with Kitson all but knocked out. 11 days later he KOed Harry Forbes in the 3rd round. The next month he won a 20 round decision over Frankie Conley, and 15 days later would win another 20 round decision over Frankie Burns. His decision over Burns was hard fought, and narrow, with the crowd's yelling due to the fast paced action being "deafening". Coulon would then win a 10 round newspaper decision over Johnny Solzberg, who was coming off of a 10 round newspaper decision over Kid Williams. After another 10 round newspaper decision over Joe Wagner, he then appears to have had the worse of a 10 round no decision against Kid Williams. He rounded out the year with a newspaper decision over legendary trainer Charley Goldman.

    Despite his hitherto hectic schedule he only has 3 listed fights in 1913, starting with a unnotable KO win. This was possibly due to him being unwilling to take on a new manager after his father's death. His next match was a 6 rounder with Frank Bradley, this was a no decision bout, Bradley is listed as the winner on boxrec, however I looked for newspaper reports, however I looked for reports myself and found "Many critics gave Coulon the decision, and others insisted the battle was a draw. None gave the fight to Bradley". It appears Coulon had a good start but "fell off" near the finish. He then fought a 10 round no decision, being even with Frankie Burns.

    In 1914 Coulon won a 10 round newspaper decision before losing any time claim to Kid Williams, being KOed in the third round, and was being beaten easilly before then.

    Coulon never got back to the top, he had several fights in 1916 and 1917 with mixed results. In 1918-1919 he was aboxing instructor for the US army. His final two fights would come in 1920 in Paris aged 31. Losing the first by 6th round KO, and winning the second by a 2nd round KO, having been outboxed in the first round.

    After his boxing career he would do Vaudeville, with his trick of being impossible to pick up despite his weight.
    This content is protected

    Coloun would open a gymnasium which would be used by Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Sugar Ray Robinson, Sonny Liston and Muhammad Ali, and was said tp have trained hundreds of fighters. He was said to have known every champion since John L Sullivan including being a close friend of Jack Johnson. He was also noted for his good character, when a community center near here was in risk of closing, he worked hard to keep it open, even though it's closure would benefit himself by bringing more people to his own gym.

    Coulon died aged 84 in 1973
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
    louis54 likes this.
  2. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

    8,584
    11,096
    Oct 28, 2017
    Any suggestions for next thread?
     
  3. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,966
    2,410
    Jul 11, 2005
    A few contemporary write-ups to get to know his style/skills.

    1911-02-27 The Daily Picayune (New Orleans, LA) (page 12)
    The fight was very clever, though at times in wild rushes both men lost sight of science, and hammered away at each other like schoolboys on a back lot. Coulon's excellent judgment of distance served him in good stead, for he conserved his strength to the utmost, seldom losing his head, and playing his opponent very nicely. He seldom appeared aggressive, allowing Conley to assume that role and rush him into corners, and apparently hammer him badly, but he was protecting himself with consummate skill, and took advantage of every opening to land a telling blow that made Conley wince. He jabbed at the face repeatedly with telling effect, and varied this with frequent uppercuts in the lower stomach, on two occasions making Conley double up. Each time this happened a right uppercut brought Conley's head straight again. There is no denying the fact that Conley got in some telling blows in the ribs and over the kidneys, and once he landed over the heart with such force that it looked as though it was all day with the little champion. But he rallied immediately, and forced the fighting, soon retaliating in good measure for what he had received. Coulon had a clever trick of edging away and suddenly turning on his opponent with a left swing that usually landed on the ear or on the jaw, and these tactics worried Conley not a little. Conley was game to the core, and forced most of the fighting. He lacked judgment, however, in delivering his blows, which frequently fell far short. He had a good deal of steam in his blows, and they counted when they landed. But as Conley himself said, "Coulon is as hard as nails, and it is hard to make an impression on him." There were no knockouts, though Conley forced Coulon to the ropes so often that the little fellow was several times on the verge of going through. In fact, in the third round, when hard pressed, he slipped partly down, but Conley magnanimously helped him to his feet. There was very little blood spilled. Early in the fight Coulon bled a little, but towards the end he was all right. Conley's face looked very raw and sore when it was over.


    1911-02-27 The New Orleans Item (New Orleans, LA) (page 8)
    If a decision had been rendered at the end of the tenth round of Sunday's milling the very best that Coulon could have gotten would have been a draw. He had nothing on Frankie up to that time, and if a fair consideration had been given to Conley on the strength of his leading that would have more than offset the very small margin that Coulon might have had in the number of telling blows that had been landed up to the end of the twelfth round.

    It was really from the eleventh round on to the twentieth that Conley was whipped, a fear in Conley's behalf that The Item expressed several days ago.

    It was right around the eleventh round that Coulon slightly changed his tactics. Finding that his jabs to the face and swings to the jaw had failed to disconcert Conley, who continued to crowd him, Coulon started playing for the stomach, and it was right then that the tide of battle turned in his favor.

    It was quite clear that Coulon was outgeneralling Conley. He fought a wonderfully heady fight. There were times when it looked like Johnny was awfully tired and a whole lot worried, but that was only in his resting periods. In several rounds he permitted Conley to rush him about and to hit without return. But Coulon was looking well to his guarding, and while always looking for an opening he was conserving his strength for the last five or six rounds.

    Coulon knew that if the hard training had affected Conley at all the center of affection would be the stomach, and this proved very true. It has since been said that Conley's stomach has been weak in his training.

    It was in the in-fighting that Coulon proved a surprise. He invariably got the better of the close milling, and this was where Conley supporters again missed their guess. They thought that unless Referee Walsh protected Johnny considerably by stepping in between the boxers when they started in-fighting Conley would do some terrific body punishment. Conley failed at this game, though there is no doubt that in the earlier rounds he hurt Coulon more than once with swings to the side of the body and stomach.


    1911-02-27 The Times-Democrat (New Orleans, LA) (page 11)
    All through the twenty rounds the fighting was brisk. Neither man loafed a bit; there was no need to urge them on to fight. Conley did a bit more of the leading, since that is his style, while Coulon was ever-ready to mix it with him. Referee Walsh permitted more in-fighting than usual, but contrary to expectations, this did not work appreciably to Coulon's disadvantage, since he showed remarkable skill at the close range work. Of course, he was better at the "stand-off-and-punch" work.

    ...

    The fighting began at a furious rate. Conley bored in, half-crouched, head low, and Coulon had to come swift to stop him. In the main, this was Conley's procedure all through the fight. He forced Coulon often to the ropes, but gained little by so doing, the Chicago boy's footwork and cleverness extricating him from these embarrassing positions. Sometimes Coulon would outbox him in the clinches; other times the advantage would be with Conley. In the pure fighting work Coulon was always the better. He did not do any particular damage to Conley, beyond bruising his right cheek and cutting his lips slightly. Coulon bled freely from the nose and his lips, cut in training, were reopened during the later rounds.
     
    BitPlayerVesti likes this.
  4. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,966
    2,410
    Jul 11, 2005
    1911-03-29 The Chicago Daily Tribune (page 23)
    Two boys, one of the old school and the other of the new, met in this struggle for supremacy. Forbes showed plainly that he had "come back," and he also showed that he can go the long route with a boy of Coulon's caliber. If the Wisconsin laws had permitted the granting of a decision it probably would have been for Coulon.

    But for Forbes it must be said he put up one of the greatest fights of his life. Meeting a boy stronger by long odds and one who had the benefit of youth, he displayed superb generalship which was a revelation to the fans.

    Summing up the whole ten rounds, it must be said that Forbes lasted to the final gong because of his cleverness. Time and again by his brilliant blocking he saved himself from defeat. There were times when it seemed that Forbes could not weather the storm of body blows which Coulon pumped in with relentless speed. Right from the start the battle was fast--in fact, as fast as is possible in the game of pugilism. Coulon dashed into the fray like a racehorse, and from that time on to the finish, there never was a letup in the pace.


    1911-04-06 The Rocky Mountain News (Denver, CO) (page 10)
    Coulon--the smoothest rough man in the game; as smooth and certain in every movement as a Corliss compound, as deft as a surgeon, as lightning swift as a diamond-back rattler, but, to the close observer, as rough and brutal as any bar-room bruiser that ever gouged an eye. This is the verdict of Uncle Dud in the Chicago Journal, who continues as follows: In his roughest tactics is displayed Coulon's most dazzling flashes of genuine science. His head and shoulders are not less dexterous or dangerous than his busy hands, and his elbow plays its speedy, punishing part upon occasion. But there is such a semblance of orderly and clocklike method and such a glittering display of consumatic skill in the operations of the bantam champ that few save his hapless opponent can find aught in him but to admire.

    That Harry Forbes has "come back" was amply proved by his having weathered through ten rounds with Coulon. Forbes has been a top-notcher in his day--he is a top-notcher now. Nothing short of superlative class could have withstood the steady onslaught of the Logan square demon during those thirty gruelling minutes.

    I doubt if the ex-champion could have made a better showing against an identical attack in the days when he was hailed as chief. His recent performance stamps him as A1, and reflects a degree of credit upon Pop Gilmore of which any trainer might well be proud. Harry should be a good card for several years yet. He has my admiration and best wishes. It is to be hoped that he will make much hay while the sun continues to benignly shine, and that experience will prompt him to mow some of it away against the not distant time when salvos will be memories and past plaudits but slender comfort to an empty stomach.

    But it is of Coulon that I intend to prattle in this brief screed, and if there be any who view him from a different standpoint I shall be content to bide the inevitable decision of events not yet enacted--time will tell. Personally I rank Johnny Coulon as AA1. By that classification I would imply that he is the greatest fighting machine that the world has yet produced. A pocket edition of physical perfection with cleverness to the verge of miraculous, he possesses the speed of a hornet, the rugged gameness of a bull and the subtle judgment of an Armenian peddler. Add to this the punching power of a hydraulic hammer and tell me how you can beat it with 116 pounds of bone and muscle.

    While steadily aggressive, the little champ is careful and painstaking and not wasteful of ammunition. He is ever ready to mix and courts a clinch as a greedy child might coax for bonbons, for it is in the hugging game that Johnny is most deadly. There is peril in every busy second of an embrace with him, as Mr. Forbes can testify. In the milling at close range Coulon displays his choicest wares and rises to the ultra level of the genuine artist. He is the only vastly clever boxer that I have ever known (and I'm no squab, mind you) with the ability to vend a knockout kick with either hand without jarring the symmetry and rhythm of his cleverness. Few truly scientific pugilists have been possessed of the narcotic wallop--take it from me--Johnny Coulon has a basketful of 'em, and each with a muzzle velocity that all but defies the most nimble vision.

    If this boy does not lose his head he will retain his laurels until he is tired of them, for of men to successfully contest his title there are none in sight.
     
    BitPlayerVesti likes this.
  5. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,966
    2,410
    Jul 11, 2005
    1911-04-08 The Seattle Daily Times (Seattle, WA) (page 5)
    By MALACHY HOGAN.

    That recent ten-round bout at Kenosha between Johnny Coulon of Chicago, recognized bantamweight champion of the world, and Harry Forbes, veteran title holder, brings to mind an oft-repeated query. It is one heard in every corner where pugilistic aspirants and followers gather to solve in their own ways the puzzles that the game presents.

    The question I have in mind is: Whether or not Coulon is the greatest bantam boxer of modern day pugilism. It gives room for every sort of argument both for and against as a thing of that sort is somewhat hard to pass upon, for one way or the other the opinion will meet with disfavor. Regardless of this, however, one can go back into ring history and detailed accounts of what took place in the days of old will have nothing in the way of class on present day engagements in which Coulon is one of the principals.

    Picking Coulon as about the best 115-pounder of all times puts him in a class by himself and over such men as Terry McGovern, Abe Attell, Frankie Neil, Danny Dougherty, Andy Tokell, Joe Bowker and a few others. It was over such men as these that Harry Forbes scored victories, and now we have the question of whether or not Forbes at his best could have whipped Coulon.

    Going back to the subject, however, we find any number of reasons why it is almost a safe bet to back the present title-holder. Those who have seen Coulon in action never forget to tell of his work in the ring. He is nothing short of a whirlwind, and it might be said that he is so fast that the speed works to his disadvantage more than it does to his opponent.

    This is explained by the fact that where he might get in two or three good blows he lands one and then dances away, but all the time keeping his opponent guessing with lightning-like feinting and the same kind of footwork. The one blow that Coulon lands, however, is as effective as a half dozen from the ordinary boxer, and in his fights it has usually shown that the trick was turned with one hard wallop on an effective point.
    ------
    Another remarkable feature of Coulon's offense is his cleverness at close range. His infighting without a doubt more than equals that of Abe Attell's, and we all know of the ripping, slashing pace that the Hebrew featherweight maintains when he closes in on his man. Attell is probably as clever a man as the bantam title-holder, but the big difference shown up in the forces of blows.

    Attell never was what might be called a legitimate hard hitter. It is true that he had a wallop of ordinary proportions and enough to put out more than one aspiring pugilist, but of late years even this has been fading away and it's the Derby route now for the champion, as he probably knows that the finish route would prove his undoing against a man of usual ability.

    Coulon's punch has never been lacking. In the early days of his career his straight jabs and short hooks to the body carried the weight of sledge hammers and it was these combined with the dazzling cleverness that sent the Logan Square lad up the bantam championship ladder with a bound. To this day these marked qualities have improved until now we find Coulon in a class created by himself, and without a rival to even threaten his laurels.

    Right here it might be well to add a bit regarding Coulon's butting tactics, which, I see by reports of the fight at Kenosha, called forth the hooting of the spectators. While I would not accuse Coulon of being rough intentionally, it is a good thing to avoid.

    Butting and otherwise roughing an opponent in the ring is well enough if you get away with it. The trouble is, however, that one can't do it, for if the referee is not right on the job the eager-eyed spectators will get onto things and it's the same old story.

    They hoot a man until they can't hoot any longer, and fight fans are funny in that they remember such incidents and the next time they see that particular man in action they open up the old score and fall back to deride and otherwise abuse the boxer who aroused their ire by some trick not strictly a scientific part of the game.
    ------
    The manner in which Forbes held off Coulon in their recent fight must have been more or less of a surprise for the followers of the two men. Handicapped as he was by age, it is nothing short of a miracle and is made to appear the more so by the fact that Forbes was battling the greatest little bantam of them all.

    Forbes must be in the neighborhood of 31 years of age at present, and his achievements in the ring date back a good many years. As I wrote in a recent story, Forbes was one of the last of the American fighters to hold, undisputed, the bantamweight crown. Following him came Frankie Neil, who knocked out Forbes in a championship battle at Frisco, the fighting lasting but two rounds. This was the first sign of going back on the part of Forbes.

    Forbes won the championship from Danny Dougherty. Dougherty had come into possession of the crown through Terry McGovern, the latter laying down the laurels when he stepped into the featherweight class. After Dougherty came Abe Attell, who claimed the honors, but Forbes disposed of him and added new laurels when he trimmed Andy Tokell, the British bantam champion.

    After Neil defeated Forbes he went to England, and after a hard battle was beaten by Joe Bowker. This marked the end of the bantam crown up to the present day, for it was lost sight of in short order and was not even claimed by "Digger" Stanley when he beat Bowker at London. This accounts for the claim that Stanley has on the crown, but to all appearances he is not pressing it very hard, so the palm goes to Coulon beyond dispute.

    As for Forbes' "coming back," that is a question. There is plenty of reason why he should show up so brilliantly in a short engagement, but on the long route the age would be too big a handicap. When Forbes was in his prime he was a marvel in the way of cleverness, so this may explain in part why he is able to stand up for ten rounds and baffle a man of the caliber of Coulon.


    P.S. Malachy Hogan wrote for Chicago Record-Herald, the Seattle newspaper just re-printed his write-up.
     
    BitPlayerVesti likes this.
  6. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

    8,584
    11,096
    Oct 28, 2017
    Thanks Senya.

    I think the next two will be Mysterious Billy Smith and Joe Walcott, I've never properly gone through their careers, and I feel most people only know of them by reputation.