Fighter you are just really not sure about ...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by he grant, Sep 16, 2020.


  1. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    I have written here for years about how I can't get a real handle on Dempsey .. I know he was a tough as nails guy with a terrific American saga .. that said based on his brilliant promotional/management team of Rickard and Kearns, his opposition, his inactivity and the fact that in my opinion he stopped developing his potential post Willard to this day I don't know if he was a heavyweight version of a Manny Paq or a Duran or a guy that may have been flattened by a well timed Bob Foster hook let alone survive more than a round against a warmed up Joe Louis ... my point is based on what I've seen and have not seen ( forget the written crap ) I just don't know ..

    Are there any fighters out there you may feel the same about ?
     
  2. CharlieFirpo85

    CharlieFirpo85 New Member Full Member

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    i know what you mean.
    I fell the same way about Floyd Patterson. I have a huge obsession for Floyd since i ever saw the first footage.
    The only two opponents he was really inferior to somebody were Sonny Liston (IMO one of the most underrated Champions) and prime Ali (Floyd fought with a back injury). All others were close decisions or more or less robberies. The exception is a good fight as a 37 year old against Ali 1972 which had to be stopped because of a cut. So Liston was his cryptonite and 65 Ali was just GOAT! On the other hand he declassed the great Archie Moore, that gave Marciano a hell of a fight just 1 year ago. Whats sad: he never got the chance to approve / to repeat it.
    (btw: i don't wanna discuss who dodged who and who's intention was it, Cus and IBC stuff etc.)

    So what would have been his Legacy ...
    - if he gets the well deserved decision over Elllis 68 and becoming the First 3 time HW Champion in History?
    - if he could go on in the Ali fight 72?
    - if the 67/68 fight with Ali wouldn't got cancelled?

    And what if he choose to compete in a lighter devision as a consequences of Big Guys like Liston, Ali, Williams, etc?!
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  3. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Marco Antonio Barerra - For every truly great performance he had, he had at least one clunker thrown in.

    Carlos Zarate - Great? Yes, I can't see how one could disagree. His opposition wasn't great for the most part though. Not sure where he belongs.

    Wilfredo Gomez - Looks so fluid, so (almost) perfect on film before Sanchez got ahold of him, but what does that really mean, considering the opposition at the time? Not saying he wasn't great, he had all the tools but how much credit is one prepared to give promise, rather than fully-realized status?
     
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  4. Bujia

    Bujia Active Member Full Member

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    Pascual Perez. No supposed all time great (unless you consider guys like Lopez and Galaxy as such) beat worse opposition. Add to that his physical stature and the resulting difficulty that could/would cause him against other great Flyweights (if that matters to you) and I can’t see how he still has such a reputation. I’m not sure he should rank among the top 10 at his division, and even that’s being rather kind.
     
  5. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Bronsonville Full Member

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    Jersey Joe Walcott, and I know it's not just me on this forum.

    Alan Minter is also a bit of a mystery in H2H imo. He is the reason I completely discount cut predictions in fantasy match ups (how do you predict that anyway?).

    I always found Joe Tatsuyoshi a bit hard to gauge, since his burgeoning, lightning fast career was almost immediately hampered with repeat intense injuries, which he was lucky to even come back from. Not just once, but twice even (detached retina in both eyes). Had some disappointing losses (in great fights), only to then beat a young, strong champ in a great 'redemption' win, a guy would go on to win a world title at 130lbs, 3 weight classes above. Beat Ayala, and was then completely finished. Destroyed by the newly invigorated Sahaphrom twice. Joe had a much higher comp level than looks at surface glance. I'm not saying he beats any bonafide ATGs, but below that I find it tricky and actually rate him higher than most.
     
  6. AwardedSteak863

    AwardedSteak863 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Michael Moorer at 175. Everything just screams that he would have destroyed Hill, Maske etc. but we will never know. Just think, had he had a career defining fight at 175 against one of those guys and maybe grabbed a belt at 190 on his way to heavyweight he would probably be in the hall of fame.
     
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  7. Richmondpete

    Richmondpete Guido Full Member

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    Anyone who drew the color line
     
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  8. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    Excellent post.
     
  9. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    Excellent.
     
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  10. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    another terrific one.