Fighters of the Century per Futch/Dundee/Clancy/Duva/Chargin - The Middleweights.

no I think his assessment of Hagler was fair , Billy probably knew boxing didnt start in the 1940s ignoring the deeper eras, Haglers resume is weak his best wins are against a past prime natural lightweight and a glass chin welter, There are tons more middles who have accomplished more than hagler!

 

Cerdan and Zale have no place on this list.

And Monzon is number 1 or 2.

 

hell no! mike gibbons has a better resume at middle and all time then monzon, who are Monzons signature opponents he beat ..a couple of past prime welterweights?

 

I could beat Cerdan.... OK maybe not. I lose in 2.. but you are right Seamus.... no place on this list. Someone please tell I am wrong

 

I love Mike Gibbons, great teacher and innovator, looks great on film...

but Monzon was the epitome of a CHAMPION, undefeated in 81 straight fights, avenged all 3 early losses AND 8 of his 9 draws. He owned the division for 7 years, ducking no one and beating everyone in every fashion. GOAT.

 

Monzon beat tomato cans ,again you comb thru his resume what all time middles are on his resume . The answer is none cant rate someone who dominates subpar competition on the same level as someone who did outstanding against ELITE competition! remember Gibbons has a win over PRIME Greb !

 

He's got a six round newspaper decision over Greb. And again, I think Mike and Tommy were underrated.

But I'll take two KOs of Benvenuti, a 15 rounder over Briscoe, two victories as an old man over Valdes, the win over Napoles... And guys like Licata were quality opponents.

 

benvenuti journeyman, briscoe another Journeyman , Valdes another one, Napoles was past prime and natural weight , Licata another cab driver .... Meanwhile gibbons dominated a prime jack dillon better than anyone on monzons list not once but twice, beat ted kid lewis another better than anyone on that list, beat other hall of famers like jeff smith mike o dowd and leo houck . Gibbons did better against better competition, its not close .

 

this is always the game played with folks who wanna boost fighters with weak resumes (hagler,monzon, pep , etc) they gotta look at these subpar not all time greats and boost how good they were to compensate against guys with much more solid resumes (kilbane, mike gibbons, sam langford etc.)

 

Hello Klompton! You sly dog. Sneaking in here. But you have tells Klomp. Give yrself away

 

lets look at the some of the feathers in Holman williams cap at middle he beat Charles burley, eddie booker, lloyd marshall,cocoa kid,archie moore etc ...does hagler or monzon have those kinds of wins over that calibre of opponent?

 

Leo houck has wins over billy papke , frank klaus ,jack dillon,

frank klaus has wins over jack dillon,billy papke , leo houck a draw with ketchel etc

 

Alright, oldtimer. Gibbons beat some "names" that got voted in the Hall of Fame because they were pioneers when the sport was wide open and the bar was low... in an age when the sport recruited primarily from breadline losers, who fought every other day in newspaper decisions, in bouts that were often closer to pro wrestling works, that rarely allowed african americans to compete on even terms and certainly regulated the recruitment of them... Give me a break. Totally different eras, totally different rewards and motivations. Monzon faced pros who prepared months specifically for him, who were recruited from the highest rankings WORLDWIDE, regardless of race, for high purses on televised events in a coordinated industry that got the best to the top.

 

Carlos Monzon was World Middleweight Champion for 7 years, Nov 7 1970- Aug 29 1977. Retired after 14 successful title defenses. 82 bout winning streak, Oct 9 1964 until his retirement. 89-3-9, 61 KO's, avenged his 3 decision losses. Beat the best of his era, not a boastful fighter, but got the job done in the ring.

 

You are right, resumes do not mean much to me, you can only fight the opponents of your respective era's. Not someone else's opponents, or fighters from another era, as long as you win.