Fighters that could achieve proper balance regardless(Ali)-guys you never see get set

Less extreme examples are guys like Robinson and Whitaker. But Ali is the only one I know of who used more or less movement of his own invention (i e not textbook) which he got leverage to punch from. Still don't understand how he could throw that one-two that he first floored Williams with.

By the way, I'd call Ali's shuffle a technique. It's obviously something he consciously worked out.

 

Wilfredo Gomez and Jose Napoles are fighters i would add in here.

Napoles footwork against Curtis Cokes (the first fight) is among the best i have seen. Very well balanced at all times.

Ray Leonard had great balance naturally so hes another candidate

 

Yes, you're right on target about Gomez and Napoles..two favorites of mine BTW..both are masters at balance and positioning...great example is Napoles-Cokes...he had the book on poor Cokes both times and just watch Gomez-Zarate PRIOR TO the knockdowns and the "kill"..you'll see clever, catlike moves on the part of Gomez, who for a certain amount of time was just superior to whoever he fought, just like Napoles.

 

I think this is more to do with speed than anything else. Ali didn't throw punches while dancing; he just had enough speed to get set very, very quickly from more or less any position. In the KD, he still does set himself: he plants his feet and pushes through with his back leg, and you can see him put his weight into it. I think it's just the ability to quickly load up and transfer weight in an instant that allows him to punch powerfully from all angles.

 

Ali seemed very strong in his upper body. It was like running headfirst into a brick wall for guys who lunged in and got hit with Ali's punches,while he was moving backwards.

I think you should check Ali's hip position in relation to his torso.He was always set to quickly generate torque in his midsection.

Ali rarely seemed to step forward into his punches ala Joe Louis. I think Archie Moore tried to teach him this when he was Clay's trainer early in his career.However Clay had found his own system and was not willing to change his punching technique.

 

Such a pleasure to watch Ali, isn't it? Like watching dance, the guy was so graceful. I am struggling with this, but what I want to say is that Ali was at once always set and yet never set. Always in position and never in the best position to throw his best punch. If you look back at the moments in the clip that you cited, McGrain, you will see that even though those shots scored effectively, Ali wasn't set in the textbook sense. But what was textbook about Ali, right? The added benefit of fighting on the balls of your feet was besides being a moving target, you made it next to impossible for the more robotic style fighter to be in the right position. Just when he set, you were already somewhere else. Technique is what you learn, get down cold to the point it is part of you, then forget it. That's when it goes from science to art.

Pep was never set in a textbook sense. Watch his feet in the pocket. He's in three different positions in every set of exchanges. Ali had the benefit of some good upper body strength to draw on to put something at the end of his shots. That KD at 5:20 in is truly a beautiful thing. It looks as if there's nothing on it, right? 'Course, so often, as in this case he catches his target coming at him. That together with whatever power Ali could muster in that moment of retreat was more times than not, if not enough to put his guy on the canvass, enough to give him something to think about. Neither of these guys waits to have their feet directly under their shoulders before firing shots. They have what they have at the moment and use it for all they can. And it's enough, to get the job done. Boxing is about scoring for fighters like this, deception, improvisation, and creativity.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpKHFZ6ixKs

 

Great shout with Pep, Chinx.

Just been watching some Pep. I have noticed when he is moving around his feet are always the same distance apart and evenly balanced. This means Pep is always in a position to throw punches generally from off balance, brilliant stuff.

Peps fighting in the pocket is normally a quick flurry and away but he does set his feet inside and lands good shots. Where Ali generally draws a fighter on, Pep steps forward in close and pushes opponents back with his fast combos.

 

Ali was compared to Canzoneri and Pep.

Of course you can't separate Ali's boxing talent from his great physical abilities.

 

I guess the name of the game when it comes to balance is to recoup as fast as you can, to be in firing position as often as possible. But I think Pep and Ali and others like them, often fire when not in the best position. Their game is about speed, right? To get to the guy many more times than he gets to you. Often when not in the best position, but it works. If they were to wait, take a more textbook approach they'd lose their edge, what makes them great in the first place. So many of the greats, regardless of styles, break the rules. If you held a gun to their heads and forced them to do it by the book they'd be half the fighters that they were.

 

Chinx excallant points. However i think Pep is in a good position to punch quite often. His feet are always placed perfectly when in range or out of range for that matter.

Another one is Niccolino Locche who is slower and generally less mobile but he is always in a place to attack or defend but mainly defend.

Just 2 guys i have been watching tonight haha

 

Recently I would say Cotto has very good balance.

 

Yeah, two great guys to learn from, GP. Just curious, what do you think of Pacquiao?

 

I love watching them 2 proper geniuses, Chinx

As for Pacquaio.

I remember waking up at 2am to watch the rematch with Marquez. I didnt know much about boxing then i was just getting into it. I saw the fight when i was very tired. And i thought this was a great fight between two warriors.

I liked Pacquiaos rawness and physical phenomenon. He was a beast that every young kid wish they was like. He had everything, Speed, strength, heart. I was more impressed with Marquez.

I then started watching earlier Pacquaio fights where he was raw but brilliant. He was just a beast at them lower weights, however i prefer a more skilled aproach.

Then i watched his bout with David Diaz and i noticed a huge difference he moved better was harder to hit and very very fast. I liked it.

Then he fought Oscar de la Hoya. and i was amazed he had really improved he was a top boxer now.

Then he destroyed hatton showing more skills.

I like the guy he is fast, strong and skillful but abit raw for my tastes now but hes abit mnore rounded.

I much prefer marquez now.