Fighters That Went Downhill, After Suffering A First Defeat?

I believe, beyond any possibility of doubt, that Eddie Machen would've defeated Liston if his right hand had been as healthy as his left. (For reference, watch how Eddie uses that right to the body on big Nino Valdez to drop him for the ten count. Crazy Eddie had no fear of Sonny, who was bewildered by this.)

How would Liston have rebounded after a loss to Machen?

 

KO Magazine (which I was a charter subscriber to) predicted that Leon would SD Larry, and they had an instantly huge readership right from their inception.

 

Oscar De La Hoya and Smoking Joe Frazier.

 

That's just mad, really. We saw exactly what Eddie was and wasn't capable of and know his level intimately.

 

Eddie by his own admission failed to beat Cleveland Williams.... but he's beating Liston? What's next? Does Frazier beat Foreman in a rematch?

 

It's certainly a huge statement, to put it mildly.

 

Ngl if he would've picked Williams in a rematch against Liston, I would've valiantly fought alongside him.

 

Of that i have no doubt!

Listons leg may have suddenly fallen off or something.

 

Livingtone Bramble

 

Louis had a brutal loss to Schmeling that he was able to put behind him.

 

Duane Bobick after suffering a KO 1 at the hands of Ken Norton on May 11 1977 in just 58 seconds in Madison Square Garden in a televised fight broadcast by NBC.

 

You can add Kostya Tszyu to that list. Lost in an upset to Vince Phillips. Came back to be the first guy in 3 decades to unify 140.

 

Just musing here on Kostya Tszyu. I agree with what you say, but one thing that was really noticeable in this bout - unlike Joe Louis who corrected his issue with Schmeling of carrying his left low after a jab - Tszyu really showed he was a sucker for an overhand right against Phillips, but never seemed to be able to correct it. I watched a later fight with Jesse James Leija and Leija was catching him as easily as Phillips did. KT had the kind of talent to go through so much talent out there, but amazing he wasn't able to correct this.

 

I don't pinpoint that as the true beginning of Bobick's downfall because of what he did next against who was then a fairly tough customer.

Duane rebounded from Norton by stopping LeDoux in eight for their rematch (when Scott's best was still ahead). It was actually Knoetze who upset the still WBA fifth ranked Bobick in three (making Kallie's name) almost exactly one year before John Tate snuffed out any remaining career prospects. Norton could have been dismissed as an anomaly for Duane, but Knoetze established a professional pattern not connected to Bobick's slow starting. (Kallie would've absolutely wrecked Ken the way Big George, Acorn and Gentleman Gerry did. Coetzee also would've wiped out Norton, as would've Lyle. Ali would have or did beat everybody in this paragraph from 1974 to 1977.)


Norton had sort of a crazy career, four freak outcomes which seemingly matched his physique, while his brilliant management adroitly picked him through the cadre of 1970's deadly bombers. (In 1970, both Fosters, Mac and Bob, would have easily knocked Ken out. For Frazier, Bob was the same height and weight that Kenny was for Garcia I.)

1) Ali forever hyped the fact that Ken fractured his jaw, but that was due to a combination of a neglected impacted wisdom tooth in the left side of his jaw which was opened for trash talking at the precise moment Norton's perfectly timed and executed overhand right crashed into it. (In reality, the hardest punches of their trilogy came in the middle bout when Muhammad outgunned Ken with power that Ali himself made out to be lacking in.)

2) The body shot attack and downstairs hook knockout of a very badly out of shape Jose Luis Garcia (who weighed only 188 for his devastation of Ken in 1970) in their nationally televised rematch five years later (but even then, Garcia, who was inconsequential after 1970, was buckling Norton).

3) Bobick, in a situation where two of the slowest starting HWs in history tried roaring out the gate with Norton's overhand right again prevailing (but Teo Stevenson had already exposed Bobick's chin in the 1972 Olympics, and Duane never learned to keep his left up in a proper defensive position).

4) The nationally televised one punch knockout of future CW Randy Stephens.

Each of these four events made Ken seem as awesome as his physique, but Jerry Quarry specified how deceptive this was during Norton-Middleton, and JQ was on the receiving end of what Ken identified as his hardest career punch (but only Norton's knees buckled in that one). Jerry must have won some huge boxing bets.

For me, Norton's best career stoppage was in swelling Henry Clark's eyes shut in nine, factoring what stages his stoppage conquests were at in their careers. Only Liston and Shavers otherwise stopped Clark.

 

Really? This seems a strange 'way off' prediction.