Fighters that were involved or managed by the MOB

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Vic-JofreBRASIL, Nov 16, 2023.

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  1. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jun 25, 2014
    I like watching a lot of fighters in the ring who I wouldn't have over to the house. Same with mobbed up fighters from the past and others of questionable ilk. Carlos Monzon killed his wife, and some around here still praise him as a fighter. That's the jaded nature of being a fan, I guess.

    The problem for fans seem to rise up when the affiliations impact fight results.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2023
    thistle, mcvey and young griffo like this.
  2. young griffo

    young griffo Boxing Addict Full Member

    May 18, 2006
    Fair call mate.
    Sorry I didn’t mean to judge you.
    It’s a pretty dirty sport
    Dubblechin likes this.
  3. Terror

    Terror Well-Known Member Full Member

    Mar 22, 2010
    There are a lot of mobs. There are a lot of places where gangsters want to watch their guy beat someone up. Getting backing from questionable funding sources is a relatively common way to start a career in boxing, even if it's just sponsorship for gear and training and some promotion.
  4. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jun 26, 2009
    Let me correct myself here. Jake LaMotta never testified that he threw a fight for the mob.

    He was given the chance when being examined to name Blinky Palermo and Bill Daly as being involved and did not — a case of ‘milk of amnesia’ where he could not recall. More like, “I think certain names came up but I can’t really say for certain” over and over.

    He was even given the chance to say it was “the mob” without specific names and wouldn’t do it.

    He testified he was offered $100K to throw the Janiro fight but wouldn’t do it unless it came with promise of a title shot. He testified he was offered $100K to throw the Billy Fox fight and would do it only if it came with promise of a title shot.

    LaMotta said he “wasn’t interested” in the $100K but never said he did not take it for the Fox fight, nor was he actually asked (a major gaffe by the questioner). So it’s unclear whether he actually took the money, and even if he said he didn’t … there’s no paper trail so how would we really know?

    Jake also said he was told he had to pay $20K to “Cerdan’s manager and representative” — NOT to the mob or to Palermo or Daly or any other person, but to Cerdan’s management — to get the title fight. He said he was told this by his brother, whom he gave $20K cash.

    For all we know, his brother fleeced him and kept the money. If we take Jake’s account, his brother gave the money to Cerdan’s manager. We know Joe Louis had to sign away future earnings to get his title shot. Paying the manager of the champ cash on the side to get a title shot is definitely shady, but so is signing away future earnings or paying kickbacks to the WBA or Don King or whomever, but it’s not the same as giving the mob money to arrange the title fight.

    EVEN IF the champ is controlled by the mob, paying his manager for a title shot is a business transaction and not a direct payment to the mob to arrange the fight … for all we know, everyone or anyone who was going to get a shot at Cerdan was going to have to pay for it with some side money.

    Here is what we know about LaMotta’s ‘turning on the mob’ with his testimony:

    1) He never named a single mob person. He said he heard names but wasn’t certain what names or who mentioned them, etc. He went with the old “I do not recall” when given the chance to finger mob figures.

    2) He wouldn’t even go so far as to say the offers came to throw the Janiro and Fox fights came from the mob or that he even knew where they came from, except that his brother told him he was being offered six figures to throw those fights.

    3) He did not say whether he did or did not take the $100K for throwing the Fox fight. Again, he said he didn’t even know who was making the offer.

    4) He testified that he was told he had to pay $20K to Cerdan’s manager and representative (and said he didn’t know the name or names/it’s unclear whether that is one or two people from his testimony) to get the title shot. He did NOT say he had to give money to the mob.

    5) He said his brother told him this and he gave his brother the cash. He did not say what his brother did with that money, nor that he had any knowledge of where the money went after he handed it over.

    Those are the facts as they relate to what Jake LaMotta said about throwing a fight “for the mob” or giving money “to the mob” to get a title shot. The fact is he never confirmed anything about the mob.

    Read all about it:

    This content is protected

    So here’s Jake being held up as a paragon of virtue of some sort who “stood up to the mob” and yet when it comes time for him to finger the mob … he does not recall, lol.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2023
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    Jun 2, 2006
    I like watching lots of fighters,some I think were pretty despicable human beings.I judge them in the ring and that's it, end of.
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    Jun 2, 2006
    You've got it really bad haven't you? Estes Kefavour has nothing on you!lol
  7. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jun 26, 2009
    In what way is discussing Jake’s own testimony about his mob involvement not appropriate on a thread on boxers with mob ties, lol?

    I know they made a movie about him, but you should choose better heroes to worship.
  8. Rollin

    Rollin Well-Known Member Full Member

    Nov 17, 2021
    Arguably a lot.
    thistle likes this.
  9. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

    Oct 22, 2015
    In law enforcement, we have a saying that " for everytime a criminal is caught burglarized/ shoplifting etc, they've usually gotten away with it at least ten times.
    I have the same opinion on boxing and the mob especially between the 1920's and late 60's early 70's.
    For everyone we think may have had mob connections, their were probably 10 others that definitely did, we just never knew about it.
    If it made money, the mob had their fingers on it, directly or indirectly, boxing, especially between 1920's early 70's wouldn't be an exception.
    kingfisher3 and thistle like this.
  10. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jun 26, 2009
    Like the guy in the movie said: “By the time I grew up, there was $30 billion a year in cargo coming through Idlewild Airport. And believe me, we tried to steal every bit of it.”
  11. Marvelous_Iron

    Marvelous_Iron Active Member Full Member

    Jul 9, 2022
    I always assume their primary interest in boxing was gambling, Liston was 36-1 before fighting Ali, so a pretty safe bet but it also would have been more profitable if he was the underdog, maybe he did throw their second fight and the shoulder injury was to make him seem even more formidable for the second fight making Ali the underdog, I think Liston fans still probably held promise in him and were fine excusing the first fight
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    Jun 2, 2006
    If Lamotta had named names he very likely would have been killed for it.
    I have to wonder what you would have done in the same position?

    How many other boxers named names when Carbo and Palermo etc were alive?
    I never suggested Lamotta was a paragon of virtue ,we all know he was not,he resisted the mob as long as he could but, knowing he would not get a title shot without doing business that one time ,he succumbed to their demand to throw a fight to get it,he wasnt alone in this,but he's the one you have a hard on for

    I think Lamotta was a pretty despicable human being,I'm 75 years old onTuesday when I shall be in Paris celebrating it , I haven't had a hero since my Dad died 20 years ago.

    I don't need guidance or lectures about heroes or role models from a pedantic anonymity on the internet who has spent ,I don't know how long posting information all of us are already well aware of .

    Kefauver wore a coonskin cap when he campaigned, choosing corruption in boxing as a soap box to give himself a higher profile.I suggest you get one,and a soap box.
  13. hdog

    hdog Member Full Member

    Jun 12, 2005
    Primo Carnera.
  14. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

    Oct 22, 2015
    Which movie?
  15. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Feb 10, 2013
    Its cute how pat conveniently leaves out that LaMotta did actually name names in his testimony to the DA prior to his testimony to the Senate Subcommittee. That testimony is included as an addendum in the hearing report. It was only after death threats he mentioned later that he “couldnt recall” specifics leading an episode of major frustrating by those questioning him during the senate hearing. In fact we know exactly who approached Lamotta, who they working for, and the basic structure of the deal. When you read LaMotta’s 2 books, Joey’s, Vikki’s, the senate report, and listen to the hours tapes Vikki made in preparation for her book its all spelled out very clearly. And again, blaming a guy who literally spent years of his life as a victim of the mob because he made a deal with them that was literally the only way he could get a title shot after YEARS at the top of the sport is like trying to say that a victim of a mob shakedown “has ties to the mob”. Its asinine. He knows this. He just has some weird axe to grind with LaMotta.
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