Fighters That Would Probably Stop Marciano?

I don't know. Marciano never fought any guys as huge as the present-day guys. How would he get to them?

 

Marciano fought a couple guys that were 6'4" or taller. Also, good footwork and timing can neutralize height and reach. Also, once the smaller fighter gets inside they need to attack the taller fighter with good punch volume, since a bigger and taller and tends to wear down faster provided the smaller and lighter fighter is in excellent condition. Marciano was a master of the crouch, which is very difficult for even the most skilled larger heavyweights to deal with. Many other smaller heavyweights used the crouch years after Marciano and had success such as Patterson, Frazier, Tyson, Byrd, etc.., but none of them used it as effectively as Marciano.


Liston - Liston was a great fighter and would be a nightmare for any of the top heavyweights today, but I have a hard time seeing him beating Marciano. Liston despite his reach and power was too straight forward and lacked the cleverness needed to land on Marciano effectively. Marciano used to due commentary over old fights from the 50's to early 60's and particularly I remember him pointing out a lot of the mistakes Patterson was making against Liston. He mentioned how Patterson would crouch and attack in a straight line, which was bad because he was leaving his body wide open for Liston to attack, which Liston did. He also emphasized that Patterson was harmless on the inside and was letting Liston do all the punching on the inside.

Liston vs. Bert Whitehurst

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Despite having a considerable reach advantage Whitehurst easily neutralized LIston's reach and power by coming in and attacking in angles. In the later rounds Whitehurst got sloppy and left his guard down and was clipped by Liston, but Liston doesn't have an ounce of cleverness to him so he could'nt finish the job. Archie Moore, who was a Marciano victim was able to finish Whitehurst twice

Foreman - Foreman accomplished great things, but like Liston relied too much on his power in his prime. In his late 30 he was a more complete fighter in my opinion, but his conditioning was never consistent. A lot of people use the Frazier fight as an example of what Foreman would do to Marciano, but even Frazier himself admitted that Marciano was a superior fighter to himself. Foreman struggled greatly with Peralta, who wasn't half the fighter Marciano was.

Levi Forte, an opponent that went 10 rounds with Foreman and also helped Ali come up with his strategy to beat Foreman discussing his fight with Foreman.

"It was a close fight. He had me down in the first round. He broke three of my ribs, but I still went the distance. He's a heavy hitter, but not the heaviest. George Chuvalo hit the hardest. I was paid $1,900 for the fight, but Foreman told me I gave him a million dollars' worth of experience."

Foreman vs. Gregario Peralta

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Despite Foreman's size advantage he couldn't put it to good use because Peralta wasn't an an easy target. Peralta was also constantly attacking Foreman on the inside whenever Foreman tried to lean his weight on him like Wlad, Lennox, Fury, and many other taller heavier heavyweights are known for. Attacking Foreman on the inside paid dividends, since Foreman was worn out in the later rounds and got a very generous decision.

Lewis - Lennox was a great champion, but he avoided Byrd, who was similar to Marciano in some ways such as using the crouch and being effective body punchers, but Byrd was a sloppier fighter than Marciano, didn't have Marciano's conditioning, and didn't use the crouch as well. The only clever person Lennox fought in his career was Holyfield, who he received a very generous draw against. Marciano l’s crouch and work rate would be bad news for Lewis, since he struggled greatly with a past prime and overweight Holyfield.

Lewis vs. Holyfield

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Holyfield was neutralizing Lennox's height and reach by using the crouch to judge the range and then was beating Lennox to the punch. Lennox tried leaning on Holyfield, but Holyfield being a seasoned pro returned the favor by lifting Lennox off of his feet, which let Lennox know he wouldn't let Lennox bully him. Despite Holyfield being long in the tooth and not in top condition Lennox was missing a lot of his punches and even when he was connecting he was rarely connecting clean.

W.Kltschko - Wlad in top form had the tools to give Marciano problems, since he did figure out Byrd's crouch while Lewis avoided Byrd and Vitali avoid a rematch after Byrd wore him out in their first fight. However, Wlad's lack of an effective inside game would be his downfall against Marciano. Unlike Povetkin, who is skilled, but is also lazy and is never in tip top condition Marciano was always in great condition and wouldn't allow Wlad to clinch and lay on him without making Wlad pay for it. Povetkin let Wlad lay on him and spent more time complaining to the ref than finding a way beat Wlad. Wlad also went 12 rounds with Jennings, who is a good athlete and nice guy, but he wouldn't have been a ranked heavyweight in the 50's.

V Klitschko - Couldn't cut the mustard against Byrd and fought novice Timeo Hoffman instead of trying to reclaim his belt in a re-match with Byrd. Neither Vitali or his trainers were interested in a re-match, since it only took Byrd a couple of rounds to figure out the range on Vitali, who towered over him and had a huge reach. Byrd crouched and constantly attacked the chest, which left Vitali gassed out in the later rounds. Byrd was also constantly baiting Vitali to throw the right hand while he crouched, which wore Vitali's arms out. Marciano was a master of this tactic and wore down many fighters both big and small.

Ali - Ali in top form had the tools to beat Marciano, but with Marciano's power, work rate, and conditioning I don't see Ali being reckless enough to try and force a stoppage. Ali had a very hard time with Oscar Bonavena, who according to Goldman had the potential to pickup where Marciano left off, since he had even better one punch power than Marciano, but unfortunately was lazy. Bonavena wasn't willing to do the necessary amount of road work to be in the condition he needed to wear bigger guys like Ali down and he ended up gassing first and got stopped.

Dempsey - Like Ali in top form he had the tools to beat Marciano, but I also don't see him stopping Marciano, since Dempsey's best offense wouldn't be landing as effectively.

Joshua - Too green at the moment. I'll reserve judgment until he has 25-30 fights under his belt.

Wilder - Wilder's doesn't protect his body and can't fight on the inside. He has a good chin, but I don't see him doing very well against Marciano. Wilder relies too much on his opponents tiring out and being easy pickings for his right hand. Howerver, in at least three of his fights his right hand was effectively neutralized by Stiverne (1st fight), Duhapaus, and Fury. Wilder was very lucky that Fury is a blockhead and ignored his corner and stood directly in front of Wilder, who made it very clear that he was trying to set up the right hand. Marciano would make Wilder look worse than either Ortiz or Fury did and unlike Ortiz or Fury Marciano wouldn't tire.

Holmes - As much as I like Holmes even in his prime his stamina always seemed a little suspect. He had the tools to give Marciano a lot of problems, but I see him getting worn down in a 15 round fight with Marciano. In a 12 rounder he might outpoint Marciano.

 

So Marciano beats all of the above?
What ****ing planet are you living on?

Johansonn has a better chance of stopping Rocky than Liston, Foreman & Lewis.?

Biggest load of nonsense i have ever read on this forum and that is saying something.

 

Styles make fights. Johansson is faster than Liston, Foreman, and Lewis and is better at sneaking in his power shots. Liston, Foreman, and Lewis all struggled with opponents that had high punch volume and and good timing

 

Well no, but Marciano fought a distinct paucity of real sluggers.
Even for mid-century smaller fighters, he did not face any real brutes like Frazier did-the bane of swarmers.
Rex Layne? Decent power, not a Max Baer type. And not very successful against goode competition.
Carmine Vingo? Just barely out of his teens & 6' 4" 189 lbs., a beanpole for a HW even then.

The best guys he fought were great boxer types, & the veryu best Louis was way past his prime.
Therefor as much as I admire him, there is no way to consider his chin nearly as good as the very best guys who fought huge sluggers & skilled SHWs.

 

It was not Louis, It was Walcott.

 

Louis, Tyson, Foreman, Liston, Lewis, Tua, Bowe, Wlad, Vitali, Joshua...

 

I concur that some of the great super-heavies would be too much for the Rock, but since Ali, the best guy on this list, admitted that he did not know if he could beat Marciano, this list is vastly overstated. I wouldn't put him in there with Lewis, and that is about the only bridge too far, though I would favor Foreman and Ali.

Three guys who do not belong in it are Liston, Holmes and Dempsey. Liston is vastly overrated, having beaten mostly smaller heavies of less-than-great quality. Holmes preferred to fight the Marvis Fraziers of the world over the best of his day, and is not really in Marciano's class. We don't know how good Dempsey was since he didn't fight Wills.

 

SONNY,ALI

 

Except they didnt "struggle" with those types.

Patterson threw punches in bunches and had blinding hand speed and could apply pressure and volume as well as anyone. Liston destroyed him twice. Zora folley and eddie machen had great timing and accuracy and liston was domimant in both performances. Listons insane reach, power, and stamina means rocky will likely be down on the scorecards most of the fight and struggling just to get close. Outside of liston quitting i dont see rocky winning fair and square.

Norton and Frazier had high volume punching and good timing and were stopped in 2 by foreman. Chuvalo was similar to rocky marginal: a rugged iron chinned guy who went to the body and slugged on the inside and an inexperienced young foreman easily busted him up and kept him at range with his jab then battered him against the ropes. Chuvalo's brute strength, iron chin and bravery didnt stop him from getting manhandled and stopped in just 3 rounds. Marciano was obviously a better fighter and had more power, but he was even shorter than chuvalo, weighed less, and cut easily. I dont see it ending any other way than foreman tko or ko within 7 or less rounds.

Lewis was not "lucky" to get a draw in the 2st holyfield fight, it was a blatant robbery. What fight were you watching? Holyfield had high volume and good timing and lewis was never in trouble and won both fights. Vital was one of the best volume punchers and a fat old lewis tore half his face off in 6. Lewis neuttalized david tua who was similar im height to marciano and liked to charge in and throw hayemakers and hooks. Tua was clueless and helpless and shut out. There isnt anything marciano could possibly do to trouble lewis and he wouldnt win outside of a random power punch if lewis got careless. He could literally win every round just jabbing his head off and leaning on him then throwing an occasional 1-2 to bust him up, then grab and leab on him to tire him out. If marciani charged in he would get flatlined by an uppercut. Horrible matchup.

The way you wrote your posts its as if you havent seen any of these guys fight. They are 3 of the worst possible h2h opponents for rocky.

 

Patterson only had punch volume and accuracy at mid-range. He was harmless on the inside, which is why he got easily destroyed by Liston. Patterson's punch volume was completely non-existent whenever he was within in range. Patterson was a great, but incomplete fighter. In his prime Zora Folley had good timing and accuracy, but never great. When he fought Liston he was well past his prime considering Lavorante, a complete novice also destroyed Folley. A more experienced and better conditioned Lavorante was easily toyed with and stopped by Moore, who was in his mid 40's and wasn't half as good as when he fought Marciano. Machen was also a good fighter and a good puncher, but he hardly had great timing and accuracy. Johansson cut through a prime Eddie Machen like a knife going through butter. Liston was good against slow fighters, but fighters that weren't easy targets and weren't afraid to punch with him in range were able to neutralize his jab. Liston also didn't have good stamina. Bert Whitehurst was willing to fight on the inside with Liston, which effectively neutralized Liston's power most of the fight, but Whitehurst didn't have Marciano's conditioning, power, or punch volume to wear Liston down. Also, If Liston quits how is that not winning fair and square. That is a ridiculous statement just like people claiming Vitali never losing because Byrd made him quit and the doctor stopped him against Lewis. Last time I checked Byrd made Vitali quit and Lewis was carving Vitali's face up like a turkey. Anybody can knock somebody out, but making another top fighter quit is way more impressive.

Norton was one dimensional, didn't have a chin, and had almost no upper body movement. Also, his workrate and timing were overrated. Norton was tailor-made for Foreman. Even Holmes, who hates Foreman admitted that Foreman would destroy anybody if they were dumb enough to stand straight in front of big George, which was proven to be true both in the 70's, 80's and 90's.

Frazier when in peak condition did have very good punch volume and timing, but the Frazier that showed up to fight Foreman in both fights was grossly overweight, had a pitiful work rate, and his timing was anything but good. Frazier is one of my favorite fighters, but he turned into a slob after the FOTC.

Also, Chuvalo is in no way comparable to Marciano. Chuvalo had durability and power, but couldn't adapt midfight and wasn't anywhere as conditioned or as disciplined as Marciano was. Chuvalo's crouch was also very mediocre and he often stood too straight up, which is why Foreman battered him. Marciano utilized very effective upper body movement, was faster than Chuvalo, and had a very high work rate on the, and had far better timing than Chuvalo.

George Foreman vs. Ken Norton

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Norton barely moves his head and never attacks Foreman's body despite Foreman leaving it wide open the whole fight.

George Foreman vs. Joe Frazier

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Frazier was almost 10lbs overweight in this fight. Frazier went to the body early, but due to being as out of shape he couldn't sustain any kind of work rate or upper body movement in order to neutralize Foreman's power. Also, because Frazier came in as heavy as he did he effectively took away his own speed advantage, which happened to be his biggest asset. That said Foreman won fair and square, since it wasn't Foreman's fault that Frazier showed up out of shape. Frazier paid the price for underestimating his opponent.


George Foreman vs. Gregario Peralta

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Unlike Norton and Frazier Peralta is constantly moving his head and upper body, so that Foreman never has and easy target and whenever Foreman tries to bully him or clinch Peralta tears Foreman's body up. To Foreman's credit he did manage to stop Peralta in their re-match, but it took him 10 rounds to do it and Peralta was 36.

I like Lewis and had him winning the second fight, but in the first fight he simply wasn't landing enough clean shots. Holyfield was past prime and they obviously wanted Lewis to be the next guy, so they gave him the draw to keep him good, but Holyfield outworked him in the first fight and landed the cleaner shots.

Also, Tua wasn't similar to Marciano, since Tua was lazy and often too heavy to be effective. He came in at 245 against Lewis, which was at least 20-25 lbs too heavy. Tua's head movement was also nonexistent, he was slow, had a low work rate, relied too much on his one punch power, and had average stamina at best. Even at the time I knew he was tailor-made for Lewis. Tua also couldn't cut the ring off against a clever opponent such as when he fought Lester Jackson, Lennox Lewis, and Byrd. Marciano on the other hand was always in excellent shape and was a master at cutting the ring off against clever opponents.

 

How people can say all this stuff about the Rock beating all these great heavyweights who were much bigger men than he was and who were in their prime is pretty hard to understand for me as Rocky didn’t fight anyone vaguely resembling them. All their arguments supporting Rocky seem to be emotion based supposition instead of fact.

Compared to fighters like Jack Johnson, Joe Louis, Ali, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Lennox Lewis and Wlad K Rocky had a very short reign at the top in both years and amount of fights and he didn’t face any large, good, prime heavyweights in a title fight. Nobody can claim that Charles, Walcott, Cockell, Moore and or La Starza
qualify.

That being said Rocky was a great fighter in his day, was always in great condition and had a huge fighting heart. Despite this I can’t see him being competitive with fighters who outweigh him by 30 to 60 pounds and who have such massive height and reach advantages as well as speed advantages. The Rock was always pretty slow of hand and foot.

I won’t list how many guys I believe would stop Rocky as it’s disrespectful to a fighter who I have an enormous of time for despite the hyperbole that his more devoted fans carry on with.

A much fairer thread starter question would have been say “ how many fighters who weighed under 200 pounds could have stopped Rocky Marciano “ ?

Very few if any would have been my answer to that one.

Cheers All.