Fighters That Would Probably Stop Marciano?

Shavers best fighting weight was about 210. Tyrell Biggs was just under 230 vs Tyson. Who do you think the bigger puncher was?

 

This whole thread screams of desperation. The desperation of one man with an obsession against Marciano.

Rocky lived his life already. It’s over.

The finest compliment to give him is to look for something that did not exist in his own time -somebody who could stop him - and decide something from the future is that solution. Yes that will wipe the smile from the faces of people who were happy to leave Rocky where he was.

Anyway. Since the thread asks who could stop Rocky here are my candidates.

1 Primo Carnera. Because He was huge And He spoke better Italian than the Rock.
2 Abe Simon. Because He was a huge Jewish Superheavyweight.
3 Tom Selleck. Because He was tall, had a large moustache and hairy legs.
4. Joe Bugner because he was tall and had a woman’s hairstyle. curly blonde hair. Too distracting.
5. Scott Ledoux (see joe Bugner)
6. Leroy Jones. This guy had moves. And moobs.
7. Prince Naseem Hamed. Catch weight of course. Nobody takes the power of Prince.
8. Joe Hipp. This Native American wore knee straps.
9. Benny Hill. Those slaps to the bald head he dished out were world class.
10. Darren Corbet. This guy was great sober. But he hardly ever was.

 

**** me , someone needs to look in the mirror if they are accusing others of obsession.

 

My instant thought. Isn't Liston dead too? LOL

 

You couldn't make it up!

 

You don’t think Tom Selleck had hairy legs?

 

Yes but some could say nobody knows for sure when Sonny died, or how he died, or exactly how old he wasn’t. Enough mystery defies explanation.

I don’t believe I ever deliberately posted a thread to bring down the reputation of any fighter. If certain points were brought up in defence of an argument that is different.

I have no fetish against Liston. He was a great contender who won and defended the undisputed title in some style. His record as a champion is as good as any other champion who held the title for similar length of time.

I do support the view that Foremans second career was a side show. So naturally I will respond if that version is pitched as an ATG. Why shouldn’t I?

 

Marciano could not compete with the super heavies of today. The man weighed 188. He wouldn't even be a heavyweight today. Someone posted on here that Wlad never lost to anyone below 235. So the division basically outgrew Marciano who was a small heavy even in his day.
If there was one hw that I wouldn't rule him out against it would be Liston. I would think Liston would have to be the favorite of course, but Marciano was a great fighter and he brought adversity to the ring with him. Nobody ever had an easy time with the rock. Liston folded on his stool when faced with adversity against another great in Clay and then was dropped (I believe legitimately) in the rematch and then whatever, quit, took a dive whatever, so he proved that he could be hurt and that he could fold when faced with adversity. And as big a puncher as he was, he was not of the huge variety of fighters that followed. Standing only 6'1 and weighing around what 215?
Rocky could sneak a short suzie Q on him or perhaps outlast him with his incredible stamina and pressure if he could take what Liston was shipping out early. Again I wouldn't make him the favorite but I don't think Sonny should be viewed as some sort of invincible opponent to Rocky.
Now Foreman, Wlad, Lewis, Vitali, it's just too much to ask imo for rocky to win.
But fantasy matchups are just that fantasy. Rocky did what he had to do in the era he fought in, he can't be accused of ducking anyone from his own era, and he beat what was in front of him. Sometimes in really great fights. For someone who laid it all out on the line everytime he fought he seems to have an awful amount of detractors. Guy was the epitome of what every fighter should be, came in shape and faced all comers and never quit. A true great

 

End of thread right there.

 

Great post. And I agree. A 260 pounder should not be allowed to fight a 188 pounder.

There are however things to consider. Firstly there were 260 pound giants around in the 1930s but they were really at the mercy of the rest of the division until the rules and equipment favoured size over ability. And that is where we are now.

Secondly let’s look at what is responsible for the success of 260 pound men. It cannot just be the size itself otherwise Carnera would have been invincible. Is it changes to the training or nutrition or vitamins or PEDs? And if it is then isn’t it worth considering all those guys who started their careers even lighter than Rocky was who were able to succeed as modern heavyweights?

So yes. Rocky was too small for today. He was never not great enough in his own time to be great in any era.

 

Nah, foreman was legit in his second career. Tyson wanted nothing to do with that.

 

Haven't got much to add to all the posts, but this reminds me of a saying common out here in the west--

"There never was a horse that couldn't be rode,
There never was a rider who couldn't be throw'd."

Wisdom to that. But there was a horse named Midnight on the rodeo circuit back in the late twenties and early thirties. Why do I know of Midnight when I have no knowledge about the many horses who have come and gone in the bronc busting competitions in rodeos over the decades? It is because Midnight was never ridden. The best any rider ever did was 7 seconds.

Could anyone anytime have ridden Midnight? Who knows? What we do know is that the best of his own time weren't able to ride him. No man walking the Earth in his day stayed on him.

To be dominant in one's own time is all a bucking bronco, or a fighter, or a football team, or any other competitor, can be reasonably judged on, I think.

 

I was around at the time. Nobody thought his career was for real. It was a hype job. Of course George was big and strong. He was experienced enough to take it as far as he could. Nobody in boxing thought of Bald George as a serious champion even after he managed to beat Moorer. And Moorer was the only remotely world class guy he ever managed to beat. Don’t forget he lost a lot more times than the record shows.

Joe Bugner was Foremans age. He relaunched himself in comebacks a few times. If Greg Page had of been a world champ when Bugner beat him in 1987 Joe could have been a 38 year old champion. 28 year old Page was no worse against Bugner than he was against Tubbs....And that’s probably why Foreman came back in 1987. It was never about being the best. It was always about beating the weakest guy with the highest profile.

To become champion he just had to find himself a Greg page type with a belt. Then he could sell grills. That’s all it was about. Wake up and Smell the coffee.

 

I think Rocky and the horse midnight are smiling down on us all.

 

I would point out that if size is used for a basis of greatness, it means that greatness is transitory. Big in your own time doesn't mean big all time. It was common to comment on how big Liston was back when he was champ versus most of the older champions. But at 6' 1" or so and about 215 lbs, he would be pretty small today.

Now if you're judging on his historical accomplishments, the fact that modern fighters are so much bigger doesn't really matter in rating Liston. But if you go by head to head and rely on size as a decisive factor, he has gone from being a rather large heavyweight to a rather small one, and so must be downgraded if you're being consistent.

For me personally, this just isn't the way to go. I stick to what the guy accomplished in his own time against the available opposition.

My thinking was clarified by an argument put forward about gridiron football (where size also matters) that a mediocre modern team which can't even post a winning record is better than dominant champions of past decades because football players have gotten so much bigger. Mediocrity trumps historical greatness because of size?

And who knows if the increase in size has ended. Perhaps in the future top heavyweights will average 7' and 300 lbs. Would that reduce all historical heavyweights to forgettable?