Fighters that you admire but dislike

Both Monzon and Hagler had the sense to stay in the division where they were ideally suited. Takes discipline rather than launch some misbegotten, ill--fated mission.

 

Eusebio Pedroza. (Probably led Sunday School classes on days he wasn't "boxing").

 

But does that include Jack Johnson, who never gave Mcvea, Jeannette, or Langford an opportunity?

How about Joe Louis, who, between Lewis in the first year and Walcott in the last, did not fight black fighters such as Lem Franklin, Turkey Thompson, Harry Bobo, Elmer Ray, Lee Q Murray and Jimmy Bivins?

I don't disagree with you a bit, but I think it is very important to distinguish whether they tried or not. It could be argued that Jefferies would have given Johnson a shot had he beat Hart, Dempsey tried to fight Wills, etc.

Anyway, for my answer, I might just say Ali himself, who was capable of astonishing racism against whites, fellow blacks, and Asians. The entire Inoki fiasco was started because he was running his mouth about how Japan didn't have any men who can fight him. And yes, had it not been for sabotaging Inoki with last minute rule changes, the Greatest would have had his mouth shut.

Also, I have heard people talk about how hurt Frazier was at being called a "gorilla," and many prominent people, such as Bryant Gumbel, have talked about how they did not understand why Ali could be so racist to his own. Calling Floyd Patterson a "white man's ******" certainly goes with the pattern.

On most days I love the man for being the greatest, but he had a lot of hatred in him, and no, it was not forgivable due to "the times." or any such bull****. Joe Frazier was a wonderful man, not a "gorilla," period.

Also Tyson. I do believe that he raped Deseree Washington, probably the whole thing starting consensual and he got rough with her. He served his time and I do not believe that he would to it again, but it is hard for me to forget that he raped a girl.

 

Mike Tyson a criminal, ******, racist, womanizer, drug addict.. But one of the best h2h.

Bernard Hopkins racist but great fighter with great skills.

Larry Holmes ugly with no charisma and a shitty body for a boxing champ, but one of the best heavyweights ever, very tough.

Floyd Mayweather racist and his behaviour and a shitty trash talker, but a very good boxer.

 

Ali for dodging the draft while many African American were fighting and dying in Vietnam... He could have give them his support, instead he only cared for himself. Talked shyte about his country which gave him the opportunity to become rich and famous.
Great fighter though.

 

I understand where your coming from but hear me out. Ali wanted to go and serve when he realized he was gonna pay a price for refusing induction. The Nation of Islam would have committed violence against him and maybe his family. He was caught up with a murderous cult and he had no choice.

 

Fact Johnson signed to defend his title against Jeannette inNY twice the Boxing Commission pulled the plug on it both times.
Fact Johnson signed a 2 fight deal to defend against both McVey and Langford in Australia,the fight offer was withdrawn when Johnson jumped bail. I've told you this before yet you persist in repeating BS why is that?

 

He cared about himself so he lost 4 years of his prime rather than go and entertain the troops giving exhibitions?
Seems a funny way to be self serving to me?
His country took away his licence and his passport, leaving him with no means of making a living .He could have absconded to Canada as many did, but he elected to stay and face the consequences of his decision.
His talent gave him the opportunity to become rich and famous.

 

BS

 

Hi Macca, I reckon Ali also noticed how the US government treated Joe Louis who did enlist and was then hunted down later on by the IRS.

Cheers.

 

It may be so, but he still did not make it happen. He still did not defend against the black contenders. Jefferies and Dempsey also have legit excuses.

It is a historical fact that Johnson signed to fight Langford, backed out, and misrepresented what happened. Jeanette also claimed that Johnson pulled the color line. So I find the idea that he almost faced them but it just got cancelled dubious. You can't trust a proven liar.

 

Yes he was selfish and egocentric. I assume he wouldn't serve even in the WW2, he was that self important.
And hypocrite, as you mentioned Canada, he should have leave the USA since he obviously didn't care for it.
While Vietcong was killing USA soldiers, white and black, he was saying he doesn't care and has nothing against them. Talked various shyte while many poor African Americans were dying in Vietnam and didn't have the luxury to behave like Muhammad Ali, the ultimate primadonna.
Instead of doing something nice for his people, his countrymen, he cared only for himself - how dare did they draft the great Cassius Clay.
He should be lucky the USA didn't lock him up for betrayal.

 

Interesting.
His family didn't like his association with the Nation, and the change of his name iirc?

 

Hi Ticar, I know this isn’t a political forum but do you realise that unlike WW2 Vietnam was a very controversial war and that MANY people dodged the draft or did a Ted Nugent and acted whacko at the induction ? Donald Trump, George W Bush and Bill Clinton all managed to avoid the draft.

Ali was actually very popular with many black American vets for refusing to go to Vietnam.

My last post on the matter as I would rather discuss boxing than politricks.

Cheers Mate.