Fighters turned ref

hdog500 · Mar 5, 2024

How does the forum rate fighters turned refs? I'd imagine there must have been some good ones but Louis and Walcott in Ali- Liston II spring to mind and it seems like there were probably more bad ones than good ones to me.

I need some educating on this topic.

robert ungurean · Mar 5, 2024

Dempsey Sharkey Conn and Gunboat all ref's for some big bouts

Flo_Raiden · Mar 5, 2024

Willie Pep was the referee for Fighting Harada vs Johnny Famechon 1 and he was highly criticized for his performance that day.

Willie Pep was good at boxing. He wasn’t so good at math. Ah, but hold the phone; we are getting ahead of ourselves. This isn’t a story about Willie Pep, but about former world featherweight champion Johnny Famechon who passed away last Thursday, Aug. 4, in Melbourne, Australia, at age 77.

Famechon was five years old when his parents left his birthplace in Paris and settled in Melbourne. He came to the fore in an era when boxing was still a mainstream sport and home-grown champions were national idols. The locals turned out in droves for the parade in Johnny’s honor when he returned to Melbourne after taking the featherweight crown from the Cuban-born Spaniard Jose Legra in a big upset at London’s Prince Albert Hall.

Famechon’s first title defense came against Japan’s Fighting Harada. They met in Sydney, Australia, on July 28, 1969.

At age 26, Harada was a battle-tested veteran. He previously held world titles at flyweight and bantamweight and would be remembered as the only man to defeat the great Brazilian boxer Eder Jofre, a feat he accomplished not once, but twice.

Only two boxers in history – Bob Fitzsimmons and Henry Armstrong – had won world titles in three of the eight classic weight divisions. Harada, who entered the International Boxing Hall of Fame in 1995, was bidding to become the third.

Team Harada insisted on a neutral referee. The British promoters chose Willie Pep. A legend in the sport, Pep had previously shared a ring with another Famechon, having out-pointed Johnny’s uncle Ray Famechon in a featherweight title defense at Madison Square Garden in 1950.

Some thought that Pep would favor Fighting Harada. American referees put a higher premium on aggression than did their foreign counterparts and Harada was a little buzzsaw who rarely took a backward step. But others thought that Pep’s selection favored Famechon, an elusive counterpuncher with whom the Connecticut “Will-‘o-Wisp” could identify; their styles were similar.

Pep had been the third man in the ring for four previous title fights, three in Jamaica and one in Brazil. But this fight would be different. He would be the sole arbiter. If the fight went the full 15 rounds, Willie Pep would be the judge and jury.

During the bout, Famechon scored one knockdown, sending Harada to the canvas in round five, but Harada scored three, knocking Famechon down in rounds two, 11, and 14. The last of the three knockdowns was the harshest, but Famechon made it to the final bell.

The fight ended in a clinch. Immediately upon separating the fighters, Pep raised both of their hands, a signal that the fight was a draw.

Fighting Harada’s handlers were outraged and demanded to see the scorecard. A policeman at ringside was empowered to give it a look-over (Australia had no boxing commission). What the policeman found was that there was indeed a discrepancy. However, it was the opposite of what Team Harada anticipated!

The fight was scored on the antiquated system whereby the winner of a round was awarded five points and the loser four points or less. In the case of an even round, both fighters got five points.

After 13 rounds, Fighting Harada had amassed 59 points on Pep’s card. He won the 14th round, giving him an aggregate total of 64 points. But when Pep added up the numbers “59” and “5” in the column where he kept the aggregate total, he came up with “65.”

Oops.

When Pep signaled that the fight was a draw, people stormed the ring from all sides. Newspaper reports said the belligerents were about evenly divided. Famechon, the Aussie, was the crowd favorite, but Fighting Harada was well-backed in the betting markets, a very big industry in Australia. Many were even angrier when Famechon was summoned back to the ring to have his hand raised.

The Famechon-Harada fight aired live on Japanese television. In Japan, there was a great outpouring of outrage. Pep had been instructed to score a round 5-4 if the round was narrow and 5-3 if there was a clear-cut winner. Despite the knockdowns, Pep scored every round 5-4 or 5-5. In the revised tally, he had Famechon winning 6-5-4 in rounds.

“Harada loses to referee” was the headline in Japan’s leading sports daily. Willie Pep made no friends in Australia either. There were shouts of “Yankee go home” as he left the ring.
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The Cryptkeeper · Mar 6, 2024

Phillip Holiday is a decent ref these days.

Pedro_El_Chef · Mar 5, 2024

Ruby Goldstein. His footwork is a giveaway.
Look how he skips around the ring (1:50)

This content is protected

His pro record: https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/12329

USFBulls727 · Mar 5, 2024

I remember catching a fight on TV...maybe around the early to mid-90s I believe...and Ron Stander was the ref.

Randy Neumann was a ref for awhile as well...

LoadedGlove · Mar 5, 2024

USFBulls727 said: ↑

I remember catching a fight on TV...maybe around the early to mid-90s I believe...and Ron Stander was the ref.

Randy Neumann was a ref for awhile as well...
Click to expand...

Neumann was a very good Ref.

LoadedGlove · Mar 5, 2024

There are plenty of British Referees who were ex Fighters, both amateur and pro. Ian John-Lewisand Terry O'Connor were area Champions.

In the 70's, Wally Thom was a former British Champion and very highly regarded Ref.

Saintpat · Mar 5, 2024

Most of them (but not all) have some background, as amateurs or pros — they just weren’t usually high-profile fighters.

One guy who was a pro I worked with (toughman who had some club fights — wouldn’t say I trained him exactly but I worked his corner a few times) and another who was the first amateur I trained both ended up as pro referees. Both did a lot of bouts and the former a few high-profile (but not quite world title) fights, and he’s still going (the other is a cancer survivor and the last few years after that just hasn’t been able to physically do it).

I’d say in all honesty (but wouldn’t necessarily tell them) that they are both better refs than they were fighters — not that they were bad fighters for their levels, but both have been excellent refs. Better by a far sight than some I see doing title fights on TV.

Seamus · Mar 5, 2024

The Cryptkeeper said: ↑

Phillip Holliday is a decent ref these days.
Click to expand...

I don't think I've seen him ref. Good to know he's found a way to stay in the game!

Journeyman92 · Mar 5, 2024

Liston was ref for Terrell and Williams if I remember properly.

BoB Box · Mar 5, 2024

Mills Bee Lane

AntonioMartin1 · Mar 5, 2024

Pedro_El_Chef said: ↑

Ruby Goldstein. His footwork is a giveaway.
Look how he skips around the ring (1:50)

This content is protected

His pro record: https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/12329
Click to expand...

Sadly he was also the ref at Griffith-Paret 3.....hs record before that was very good.

I feel sorry for him, he never forgave himself after that.

AntonioMartin1 · Mar 5, 2024

Pete Rademacher was a referee too.

He was a good, solid Heaveweight. Who dropped Floyd Patterson in a world title challenge in his first pro fight (wow!)

Bronze Tiger · Mar 5, 2024

Jersey Joe Walcott

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Fighters turned ref

hdog500 New Member Full Member

robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

Journeyman92 Delusional BUT Determined Full Member

BoB Box "Hey Adam! Wanna play Nintendo?" Full Member

AntonioMartin1 Jeanette Full Member

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