Fighters usually make trainers, not the other way around.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by VG_Addict, Aug 10, 2022.

  1. VG_Addict

    VG_Addict Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Trainers are often given credit for training great fighters, but it seems to me that most of the time, fighters make trainers, not the other way around. Take Virgil Hunter for example. He's best known for training Andre Ward, who was a great fighter, so that must mean Hunter's a great trainer, right? Except no. Ward was a generational talent who would have done well with any trainer. Hunter just happened to be the trainer who discovered Ward. There's a reason Hunter hasn't had nearly as much success with the other fighters he's trained.

    Or, take Brian "BoMac' McIntyre. Can you even NAME a fighter he's trained besides Terence Crawford? I can't, at least, not off the top of my head. As is the case with Ward, Crawford is a generational talent who would have done well with any trainer.
     
  2. chacal

    chacal F*** the new normal Full Member

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    No, I dont agree in this one. Trainers make fighters. Or at the very least, good trainers make fighters. I have no doubt about it.

    Look at roberto garcía, what he did to maidana. He took a donkey, and transformed it into a top notch fighter. That's just an example, there are tons of examples like that (involving good trainers, ofc. Bad trainers.... well, they dont do ****)

    canelo, ward, crawford... they would do well with any trainer, that's true. Still, they wouldnt do "the same" with any trainer. Good trainers will be able to shape them better, and to squeeze their talent better than bad trainers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2022
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  3. Guerra

    Guerra Active Member Full Member

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    No way, look what Roach did with Pacman or manny Steward with Hearns, Lennox and Wlad.
     
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  4. chacal

    chacal F*** the new normal Full Member

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    I cant stand roach but he's a good trainer. And god knows I would love to say that he's a horrible trainer. But I cant unless I lie.
     
  5. box33

    box33 Active Member Full Member

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    Roach did help initially with Pac but soon after that he began to hang on like the rest in Pac's unintelligent camp,

    Likely around 2010 is when Roach started to decline,

    if anything Alex Ariza was a great addition & suspiring actually knew how to produce as an efficient SC Trainer unlike the hopeless Justin Fortune who Pacquiao kept around to do absolutely nothing, what a shame.
     
  6. ikrasevic

    ikrasevic Икрашевић Full Member

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    With the coaches you took as an example, what you say is true.

    But with "old school" trainers, the situation is completely opposite.

    Angelo Dundee:
    Muhammad Ali, Jimmy Ellis, Sugar Ray Leonard, Wilfred Benítez, Roberto Durán, Thomas Hearns, Marvin Hagler, Luis Rodriguez, Willie Pastrano, Ralph Dupas, José Nápoles, Pinklon Thomas, Trevor Berbick, Jimmy Ellis, Wilfredo Gómez, Michael Nunn, James Tillis...

    Ray Arcel:
    Benny Leonard, Ezzard Charles, Jim Braddock, Barney Ross, Bob Olin, Tony Zale, Billy Soose, Ceferino Garcia, Lou Brouillard, Teddy Yarosz, Freddie Steele, Jackie Kid Berg, Alfonso Frazier, Abe Goldstein, Frankie Genaro, Tony Marino, Sixto Escobar, Charley Phil *********, Roberto Durán, Larry Holmes...

    Emanuel "Manny" Steward:
    Julio César Chávez, Wilfred Benítez, Miguel Cotto, Chad Dawson, Oscar De La Hoya, Tyson Fury, Naseem Hamed, Thomas Hearns, Evander Holyfield, Wladimir Klitschko, Lennox Lewis, Mike McCallum, Gerald McClellan, Michael Moorer, Aaron Pryor, Adonis Stevenson, Jermain Taylor, James Toney.....
     
  7. Johnny1987

    Johnny1987 Member Full Member

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    This couldn’t be further from the truth, you think Mike Tyson would have achieved anything without Cuss?

    Kronk fighters, was it just a coincidence that so many champions were produced?

    A trainer is everything to a fighter. Just like your teacher’s who taught you how to speak, just like your parents that taught you how to wipe your own arse.

    Being born with a gift doesn’t mean jack unless you know how to use it, that’s where a trainer comes in. They enable fighters to excel
     
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  8. Pimp C

    Pimp C Free The Guys! F 12 & Goofies Stay Dangerous! Full Member

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    In some cases it may be true but not in most cases. For example a guy like paul williams had some of the worst training ive ever seen. With a great trainer a guy like Paul Williams could've been something special. His trainer did him no favors had him fighting on the inside with his length and height made absolutely no sense. A guy like steward would've brought out the best in williams and made williams into an ATG. Training matters alot.
     
  9. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    I agree for the most part.

    Of course there will always be exceptions, and there will always be trainers that can maximize great talent.

    But in general and on average, I think fighters make trainers.
     
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  10. VG_Addict

    VG_Addict Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Williams would have been unbeatable if he used his height and reach.
     
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  11. EddieLima

    EddieLima Member Full Member

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    Trainers are important specially on a developmental phase. Guys like D'Amato and Blackburn "Made" Tyson and Louis. Sometimes by their knowledge of strategy, tactics and their opponents weakness and strengths they could also set up wins the way Eddie Futch and Emmanuel Stewart did.
    Now you can see some trainers that are clearly just want to be on the spotlight gathering all the praise for some wins and media buying into it. Can't think on a better example of this than Teofimo Lopez Sr (Trainer of the Year).